How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout • Hacker News Board

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#51

Post by blindhippo » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 3:28 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #15

> "Overwork doesn't burn people out per se, but it's doing that without knowing the things that replenish you." If you're working 130 hours a week, and sleeping a healthy 56 hours a week, that leaves you with negative 18 hours a week for replenishing yourself. Not even including showering, eating, etc. I'm sorry, but merely having dinner with your family on Tuesday nights is not what it takes to replenish yourself. I…

I think people are reaacting to the 130 hour note a bit too much. I doubt that was a common occurence, just an outlier week put in there for effect. If what you do for work is your passion (ie: hobby, interest, etc), then you naturally get energy back from the effort you put in. Especially if you see meaningful results back. In such a situation, Mayer's recommendations makes sense.

Working for someone else's passion, idea, etc as talent/expertise doesn't translate the same. The problem with articles like this is that some manager/entreprenure/"idea guy" is going to read this and make it the rule around the office, even for the people it most certainly doesn't apply to.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#52

Post by pwthornton » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 3:31 PM UTC

I don't buy that she worked 130 hours a week. Perhaps one week ever. But I'm still not sure if I buy that. Anything short of documentary proof wouldn't lead me to believe it.

We do have data that people overestimated how much they work. I'm sure she worked long hours. I'm sure she was in the office a lot to. But 130 hours?

And 130 hours of actual good work? We also have data on how the quality of work drops off as quantity begins to add up.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#53

Post by j_baker » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 3:32 PM UTC

s1rech wrote: post #12

First of all, I very much doubt that she actually worked 130 hours per week with any regularity. That comes to 18.5 hours per day, including sundays. Even assuming that she could survive with 3 hours of sleep per day (yeah, sure), it leaves almost no time to eat, commute, or god, even going to the bathroom. And why in the world is she giving advice on burnout?

You know, frequently such a person is the type to make others think they're contributing merely by being at the office for such a long time.

"Marissa must be getting things done. She works here 130 hours a week!"

Yet if you look, they probably aren't actually working the entire time they're in the office.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#54

Post by nickpinkston » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 3:36 PM UTC

blindhippo wrote: post #51

crazygringo wrote: post #15

> "Overwork doesn't burn people out per se, but it's doing that without knowing the things that replenish you." If you're working 130 hours a week, and sleeping a healthy 56 hours a week, that leaves you with negative 18 hours a week for replenishing yourself. Not even including showering, eating, etc. I'm sorry, but merely having dinner with your family on Tuesday nights is not what it takes to replenish yourself. I…

I think people are reaacting to the 130 hour note a bit too much. I doubt that was a common occurence, just an outlier week put in there for effect. If what you do for work is your passion (ie: hobby, interest, etc), then you naturally get energy back from the effort you put in. Especially if you see meaningful results back. In such a situation, Mayer's recommendations makes sense. Working for someone else's passion,…

I think this is probably the best interpretation of the piece. Both 1.) that passion restores (this is probably the chief reason to do what you love and not follow big trends blindly BTW), and 2.) that the 130hr was an outliner that was brought out of this piece for dramatic effect.

I'd also love to see a poll for who actually does this desk sleeping stuff. Also, how many of those fell asleep in school often? I just never get sleepy at a desk - exhausted, yes, but not sleepy...

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#55

Post by jeffbarr » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 3:41 PM UTC

I don't think burnout directly correlates to working too hard or too much. I think it is more a matter of working hard without a sense of accomplishment. Endless toil without material or psychic rewards for a job well done is what would lead me to burnout.

I have worked with people who claimed to work over 100 hours per week. Upon closer investigation it generally turned out that they did a lot of personal business from the office "because they were so busy." Or, they used "I'm too busy" as an excuse to ignore their spouse or children or to escape a painful situation at home.

Like the others, I don't buy 130 hours on a sustainable basis. Try to work 60 or 80 hours in a week and see how difficult that is before claiming 100 or 130.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#56

Post by famousactress » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 3:46 PM UTC

Step 3. Grant employees one must-have freedom.

Silly bullshit. First of all, by definition you have to grant all must-have freedoms. If that's not a deal-breaker than they're not must-haves.. but the idea that family dinner is a gift from your employer is ridiculous.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#57

Post by wazoox » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 3:50 PM UTC

I did actually worked for about 100 hours a week and more, for a few months in 1998, and I spent a couple of quiet weeks in hospital as a result. This sort of stupid bullshit about hard work really gets me angry.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#58

Post by SonicSoul » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 4:03 PM UTC

i think this article lost a lot of merit because 130hrs/week were mentioned. i am guessing this was some kind of record and happened once, but because of the way it was mentioned (proudly, to illustrate that she's a badass) the article seems to insinuate this amount of hours could be sustainable, and worked around with a few anti-burnout tricks.

if this advice was given for ~60hr weeks, it would actually be a lot more credible.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#59

Post by groby_b » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 4:09 PM UTC

j_baker wrote: post #53

s1rech wrote: post #12

First of all, I very much doubt that she actually worked 130 hours per week with any regularity. That comes to 18.5 hours per day, including sundays. Even assuming that she could survive with 3 hours of sleep per day (yeah, sure), it leaves almost no time to eat, commute, or god, even going to the bathroom. And why in the world is she giving advice on burnout?

You know, frequently such a person is the type to make others think they're contributing merely by being at the office for such a long time. "Marissa must be getting things done. She works here 130 hours a week!" Yet if you look, they probably aren't actually working the entire time they're in the office.

I can't speak for Marissa, but I certainly did pull one or two 130-hour weeks "back in the day". They _were_ productive. I did pay a huge price for them, both in terms of reduced productivity for weeks afterwards, and in terms of health. (I always get a horrible cold after exhausting myself that much)

There are two things to keep in mind:

1) These weeks were rare. I'd expect they were rare for Marissa too. You can't do that anywhere close to regularly. And you don't. Those are heroic efforts to meet a particular deadline.

2) That was "back in the day". Late 20's, early 30's. As you get older, those efforts are much harder. (Damn it, all the old people I knew needed next to no sleep. Can I please finally be old enough for that? ;)

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#60

Post by munificent » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 4:10 PM UTC

In case anyone is wondering whether this reflects Google's current working culture, let me comment that in my experience it absolutely does not.

In the office I work in, it is virtually empty at 8:00 AM and mostly empty by 7:00 PM. Most people seem to show up around 9:00 AM and leave around 6:00. On Fridays, the office mostly stops working around 5:00 PM.

There is a cadre of people, typically those without families, who stay a bit later but it often seems like they stay just long enough to eat the free dinner and then head home. Those people often also show up around or after 10:00 AM.

There is variation from project to project and office to office, but the work life balance seems very healthy in the offices I've seen. I have kids and a long commute, so it's important that I don't work late and I've never felt the slightest pressure to work more hours.