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Apple Quietly Pulls Claims of Virus Immunity

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Re: Apple Quietly Pulls Claims of Virus Immunity

#51
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the recent Flashback.K qualifies to some degree. All you had to do is visit an infected webpage and the Java applet would walk onto your system. It would immediately ask for admin privileges, but due to the huge Java hole it would have your user privs automatically. Since OSX enabled Java by default, and since responsible practices were no defense, this compromised enough Macs that it was proportionally compa…

And then Apple disabled Java, and Apple no longer ships Java. Java has been a huge security vulnerability for a while now...

It's still useful to have though, and Apple makes it really easy to install. GlimmerBlocker, Maple, Processing and a few game clients I use need it. It does seem that the default is that "Enable applet plug-in and Web Start applications" is off by default (in the Java Preferences app; there's no mention in System Preferences).

Re: Apple Quietly Pulls Claims of Virus Immunity

#52
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "It doesn't get PC viruses" will, by definition, always be true. Until someone writes a 2-in-1 virus that can infect cross-platform.

Then by definition it is not just "PC".

It's still a "PC virus."

Re: Apple Quietly Pulls Claims of Virus Immunity

#53
"Let's hope more Apple Mac owners are also learning to take important security steps -- such as installing antivirus protection."

This is the worst possible step to take.

When I switch someone over to Mac I take the opportunity to recalibrate how they see their computer as secure. I teach them to be more aware of what they are doing and how potential viruses could infect them. I find this is 100x more effective than installing antivirus software which is shit most of the time and instills a fake sense of security.

I had a family member who would always click "OK" whenever a window popped up in Windows or would blindly enter in their password because they figured Windows was just annoying them. When they got their Mac I taught them that whenever OS X opened up a window asking for their password or asked them if they really wanted to open up a file, they should freak the hell out and be 100% sure of why that box appeared. I actually got a couple of phone calls from them asking if certain popups were OK. Sure this was annoying at first but after a week or two they started to understand why these things were happening.

The great benefit of changing their way of thinking and making security a priority was that when Flashback hit I told them that disabling plugins was one of the best ways to prevent from being infected and they immediately accepted this.

Macs are not 100% secure. No one should be under any delusions of this. But teaching people why they are not secure is the solution. Not hiding behind POS antivirus software.

Re: Apple Quietly Pulls Claims of Virus Immunity

#54

Apple seem to be less interested in comparing themselves to MS and PCs in general these days. In ~2005 their entire marketing was based around trying to sell you a Mac as a PC replacement "Your next PC should be a Mac". I guess they are less interested now because it's a smaller % of their revenue and most of the people who would want/can afford a Mac are already giving them plenty of money so there's no desperate ne…

Apple's current focus is iPhone and iPad.

Microsoft has zero market share in the table market ("there is no tablet market, there is an iPad market"), and a very small share in the mobile phone market.

When you are #1 in a market, you don't do comparisons.

The Apple Stores are probably the best marketing the Mac can ever get. So it's better for Apple to spend money on the stores than on making TV ads for the Mac. And so they have: http://www.asymco.com/2012/06/25/the-face-and-the-brand/

Re: Apple Quietly Pulls Claims of Virus Immunity

#55
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? That must be why when they switched to Intel they touted the compatibility, and why the even offer a utility called "BootCamp" to easily run Windows on your Mac, with automatic re-partitioning, hw drivers, et al.

You know that, i know that, but let's ask some of those people that actually think that Macs do not get viruses because they are better...

Well, they must be doing something right at Cupertino, because they really don't get viruses. Not theoretically of future-wise: practically.

99.9% of things reported (and even those are not that many to begin with) are trojans. So, Mac viruses are like the Yeti, they might well exist, but very few people have seen them in real life.

It's not just market share either. OS8/9 had several viruses with 1/5 the market share OS X has now.

If one considers that OS X is basically NeXTStep, and essentially a UNIX, do one really sees many viruses in UNIX systems? What I'm getting at is that the "administrator privileges by default", "can fuck with any file on the system" feature of Windows --up to Windows XP, which is where viruses really reigned, was not part of OS X from the beginning.

So, at worst, OS X since 10.0 was as secure as Windows Vista, which was not a swiss cheese OS like, say, Windows 98. Plus, OS X didn't have Active X, either, and used a custom PDF viewing (Acrobat is another common attack vector in Wintels).

Now, with the eviction of Flash and Java plugins as the default, and several other techniques (sandboxing, ASLR, signatures, etc), things will get even better.

Re: Apple Quietly Pulls Claims of Virus Immunity

#56
post #50
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, theoretically they DO get viruses --but practically they don't. All those past false alarms, touted to high heavens, were trojans. And they aren't even that many, at that. The one genuine virus like thing --which still wasn't a virus as it needed you to visit specific webpages-- infected like 100,000 Macs. So, assuming ~ 20M Macs, 99.5% of the Macs out there haven't got any virus, ever. And with better OS X sup…

Of course, are "viruses" the problem on PCs anyway? Or are trojans the problem everywhere? Viruses are hard to write, since you need several exploits, to get them to both install and spread. Trojans just need one.

Well, the big epidemics on PCs have been viruses, not Trojans.

Trojans don't spread fast because of their very nature.

Re: Apple Quietly Pulls Claims of Virus Immunity

#57
post #12

"It doesn't get PC viruses" will, by definition, always be true. It's just not as relevant as it used to be, as Windows is much better in this regard today. If anything, this change is a nod to how the computing industry has moved on - using a Mac is no longer PC virus avoidance, but more "use this because it's great". That said, most of the "virus" writers have turned to spyware and adware, and other scummy malware…

>> "It doesn't get PC viruses" will, by definition, always be true. Macs are PCs.

"PC" has been appropriated numerous times by vendors to mean a specific platform. In the times were personal computers were less-standardised "IBM PC" and later "PC Clones" referred to the platform and not "personal computer" specifically. This naturally led to Macintosh computer being referred to as Macs, even though they too are "personal computers".

The problem is that many people today don't understand the history of personal computing and that "PC" has an established history of meaning a specific mainstream platform. I think some mistakenly poke fun at Apple, as if they had invented the label 'PC' for their ad campaign. When actually Apple merely took advantage of this convenient, existing differentiator for their PC vs Mac ads.

Apple have been working references to other platforms out of their marketing materials for years. Comparisons are no longer needed when a company has found their publicly-held niche.

Re: Apple Quietly Pulls Claims of Virus Immunity

#58
post #12

"It doesn't get PC viruses" will, by definition, always be true. It's just not as relevant as it used to be, as Windows is much better in this regard today. If anything, this change is a nod to how the computing industry has moved on - using a Mac is no longer PC virus avoidance, but more "use this because it's great". That said, most of the "virus" writers have turned to spyware and adware, and other scummy malware…

>> "It doesn't get PC viruses" will, by definition, always be true. Macs are PCs.

No, in the context we are discussing, a PC is not a "personal computer", but what was called an "IBM PC compatible" (and subsequently by some a Wintel machine).

Few people use "PC" to mean personal computers in general, especially since for 99% of the people personal computers are all they know and encounter anyway, so no need to distinguish both Mac and PCs from, say, Mainframes and embedded systems....

That's why nobody got confused by the 3 year running "-I'm a Mac, -And I am a PC" ad campaign.

Re: Apple Quietly Pulls Claims of Virus Immunity

#59

"Let's hope more Apple Mac owners are also learning to take important security steps -- such as installing antivirus protection." This is the worst possible step to take. When I switch someone over to Mac I take the opportunity to recalibrate how they see their computer as secure. I teach them to be more aware of what they are doing and how potential viruses could infect them. I find this is 100x more effective than…

Great solution. This is the right attitude toward security in any case, Mac or PC. You can't neglect safe driving just because your car has air bags, yet I see that exact problem on computers with anti-virus all the time.

Macs actually do make it easier because they have a pretty good track record of not "crying wolf" with things such as password prompts or security warnings. Most of the pop-ups are justified and infrequent.

Macs have never been 100% secure. No computer is. Apple pulling this marketing has nothing to do with a reduction in security and everything to do with covering their legal butts as their platform becomes more popular and more targeted. It's still the user's responsibility to keep themselves safe in the end, even with a decently secure OS.

Re: Apple Quietly Pulls Claims of Virus Immunity

#60

I'm genuinely curious... are there viruses that spread in OSX? Not trojans or whatnot that require users to click on files they shouldn't, but rather actual viruses that make use of vulnerabilities in OSX to spread from computer to computer, either via Internet or thumb drives or something? In other words, if I always follow responsible practices (never opening files from untrusted sources), has there been any threat…

What are some recent examples of such Windows viruses even?

Most malware is spread by downloading fishy software or from browser/Flash/Java/PDF exploits.

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