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Why Scrum is stressing you out

rethinkingsoftware.substack.com

431–440 of 462 posts

Re: Why Scrum is stressing you out

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the nearly 30 years of doing this, I’ve had more success delivering good quality software that meets business requirements under waterfall than any of the SCRUM implementations I’ve worked with, and I am saying that without disagreeing that waterfall has its problems. In the agile space, kanban is the only one I’ve felt is productive, but it has trouble scaling to multiple teams.

In my experience, waterfall forces business to think more about the project and plan accordingly. They have to think about how this feature interacts with this other feature. Business also usually has a better understanding of how the software will work because of the planning phase. In my experience, with 2 week sprints, the business doesn't really have to think about anything outside of bite sized chunks or even ho…

>Before agile, we essentially did 4 releases a month

Correction, 4 releases a year, or one every 3 months.

Re: Why Scrum is stressing you out

#432

I've learned to hate software process. If you have team sizes set sanely and empower devs to do what they need to do in order to accomplish the goal, they'll be fine without the management overhead of arbitrarily imposed productivity flow. Agile et al, along with 99% of the features in ticketing systems, exist to make managers feel like they are justifying their paycheck. If you are a manager and this makes you angry…

Just keep in mind that a lot of people equate Agile with Scrum, which is incorrect. Agile is about exactly what you said: empowering devs to get shit done. None of the extra “keep managers happy” crap that Scrum introduces is in any way covered by the Agile manifesto.

Most “Agile” process are agile in the same sense that the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is democratic.

Re: Why Scrum is stressing you out

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to break work up into tasks that take less than two weeks. Beyond that, you’re metagaming and that is going to end up either not being worth the energy invested or a net negative. I say energy not time because there are only so many niggling arguments you can have with coworkers before they push you into traffic. Each petty little argument that could have been about something more important just runs down th…

I disagree as when you have a team of 8 people understanding whether something is one day of work or 10 is a big difference. I don’t think you need precise estimation down to the hour, but knowing if someone can do 4 things in a sprint or just 1 is really important because people have interdependencies. I don’t think I’ve ever had arguments about estimates and it’s usually a really quick exercise of “I think this is…

I've been encountering fewer and fewer small point stories of late. There's a certain amount of overhead for one story, both on the creation side and the deployment side, and that bookkeeping starts to overshadow.

And on a larger team, a lot of these little things that need to be done could just be tasks rolled up into a maintenance story.

Of course when I was on a team doing Kanban none of this bullshit mattered. You just put it at the top of the backlog and it got done. Quick win, instant gratification, next story please.

And that right there is one of the biggest reasons Scrum is showing its age. It came into a world where quarterly milestones were the only time you found out how fucked the project is, and only then if you had a good bullshit detector. Otherwise it would be next quarter when you figured it out. It pushed that world down to two week resolution, one month to see past the BS. But it struggles to make good on reducing past 2 weeks. One week has more overhead, and forget about anything shorter than that.

Also I've never encountered anyone who followed Ken's advice to run sprints from Wednesday to Wednesday, so we always get the worst version of Scrum.

Re: Why Scrum is stressing you out

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The stand-up is an opportunity to call out things that are blocking you, not for giving status updates. I find it very useful for allowing everyone on the team to have a general idea what everyone else is working on. You can call out to ask for help at any time [1]. But having a 15 minute meeting each day to make sure everyone has a view of all the pieces in movement is handy. [1] Though the standup does give a pla…

> Though the standup does give a place for people that aren't comfortable calling out when they're having issues In my experience, standups are the worst places for such people. If they aren't comfortable calling out when they're having issues, they're even less comfortable calling out that they're having issues in front of the entire class.

And then if someone does have a blocker, talking about it needs to be "taken offline", so you already have to do an external sync-up anyway.

Re: Why Scrum is stressing you out

#435
post #423
post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood this point of view. It's impossible to predict the future, and it's impossible to predict the complexity of something you've never done before. Given that, estimates can not be useful, other than as a tool for political post hoc justification. I have personally only ever had success with estimates that were "is this a project, or is this a task that belongs to a project". Perhaps stretching to t-sh…

There is very little chance that what you are working on has never been done before. Most likely, you are writing simple code to do simple things. These things can be broken down into simple tasks, and these simple tasks can be estimated. Unless you are working on ChatGPT-6, i assure you, you can definitely estimate how long things will take. your estimates will not be perfect, but they will be good approximations fo…

I don't think the folks that say this usually mean "never done before" in the way that you are saying.

"never done before" in my experience usually translates to "this combination of things doesn't have precedence internally [to the team or company], so I have to figure out how to glue all of these parts I don't understand together".

Re: Why Scrum is stressing you out

#436
post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What do you even talk about for an hour? We once had 1 hour long standups. The reasons were: 1) large team 2) many devs loved to go into detail about their work, and no one stopped them 3) the expectation was that a standup must be about describing what you did yesterday, in detail What we did: 1) split the team into subteams where each team has their own standup (down to 5-15 min) 2) the standup's facilitator now s…

> 2) the standup's facilitator now stops devs from going into too much detail, "you guys can discuss it further after the standup" I said this in another comment, but a standup I'm part of tables these until the end of the call; and then anyone not involved in that conversation can drop off. It seems like a reasonable compromise to balance the need to get people together to discuss something against the need to not k…

So I think one thing that seems to pop up in people’s anecdotes is “well someone wanted to just talk about what they did yesterday.”

Which I suspect comes from the manager/PM going “so what’d you do yesterday?”

I’ve been taught, and I teach others, that in the standup you drive the questions. Usually along this framework:

1) I assigned you Task A yesterday. Did you finish Task A?

2) If yes, awesome. I have Task B for you. Or, go help Bob with Task C.

3) If no, cool. Why? What happened? Is there anyone in this circle that can help you? How can I help you.

4) Open Ended Questions/Comments that we need to circle up on later

5) General Announcements

15 - 30 minutes depending on the size of the team, scope complexity, etc. No one should be talking for more than two minutes. If whatever they need takes longer than 2 minutes, that’s taken offline and a flag something is wrong.

If you’re going to treat the software development like a factory, you must assign and manage work like a factory.

If you’re going to treat it like magazine publishing, you must assign and manage work like a publication.

Pick one. And stop having hour long standups y’all are crazy.

Re: Why Scrum is stressing you out

#437
Agile/scrum isn't a good model under any circumstance, because, as mentioned many times at this point in many posts:

- It leads to burnout because engineers are incentivized to shorten their estimates as much as possible, so as to not look unproductive, only to eventually run into a roadblock, which is typical in any sort of engineering discipline. And maybe the managers made promises to other people based on these estimates, and that, even if you communicated the estimates weren't very accurate, they still relied on when they discussed things in their meetings, and now there's a whole lot of tension and stress for everyone.

- It pits the team against each other, because Bob wants to shine, which puts pressure on everyone else to shorten their estimates, or a tit for tat where Steve would then try to cast shadow on Bob and ask them why they estimated a ticket that Steve has better domain knowledge on, to be 3 days instead of 1 day, etc. In practice, companies work a lot better when everyone works together, not when colleagues try to pull the rug from under their own teammates. Or the workers secretly collude together to pad their estimates so that they have all this free time, at the expense of the company.

- It leads to managers micromanaging the team, and even if they're aware of the problem and try to avoid it, it'll still inevitably happen because the process and scrum are designed in such a way to lead to that sort of dynamic.

I think the industry can do a whole lot better. I have two alternative models, one that I definitely know works because I worked in that kind of environment, and the other one theoretically should work after tweaking it (I think):

1. The Polite Society Model (aka butts in seats)

- Open office

- Everyone gets assigned a task either by the PM or pulls something out of the backlog of a kanban board

- The manager knows that everyone on the team is working, since the manager can easily see that's the case since it's an open office. So if Bob is slower than Mary but faster than Lucy, and any nuance where any worker might be slower or faster on some task because of their background and individual variation, is just how it is, and is self-evident

- Once someone is done with a task, they report to the PM, and if all is well, they get assigned a new task

- No deadlines and no micromanagement necessary. Things get done when they get done. The PM might ask about a larger project that spans into more weeks or months, but this is polite society and an open office, so it's not going to be about grilling Bob on a task or anything like that, and more about prioritization. Ideally, the manager would have a developer/engineer background, and would split up a larger task into many smaller tasks, and would communicate their own estimate to other managers or investors for how long they think Bob would take to finish it, based on how he's making progress on the smaller tasks and his historical performance, making it so that there's no need to pressure Bob to give an estimate, or to micromanage Bob on progress

2. The Captain's Log (aka blinding for remote teams)

- Each developer adds their own private estimates to tickets in a kanban prioritization board. Estimates are always a range from best-case to worst-case, with a wider range communicating uncertainty. The PM can see these estimates from each dev, and prioritizes the queue periodically, once a week or two, on their own, since they're the ones that are ultimately concerned about what product features the team should work on, not the engineers. Bob might estimate a ticket more or less than Mary does, based on their own perceptions, their own productivity speed, domain knowledge, etc. Blinding also should make it clearer to the PM that there's a wide range of uncertainty in some tickets, if there's a wide range in estimates for it, which would be harder to do under scrum, where time needed would more likely get underestimated. Especially for longer tickets that can't fit in a sprint block. Also nobody knows which tickets they'll end up picking up since everyone just picks up from the top of the backlog and prioritization can theoretically change each week by the PM. Devs also should update their estimates periodically if it changed after they learned more about the problem, keeping a log of the older previous estimates that were made as well to get a better sense of the problem domain

- Each developer periodically privately logs their progress on tickets, blockers, setbacks, etc, like a captain's log, maybe once a week or two, or sooner if issues arise sooner. As soon as there's a blocker, developers need to reach out to whoever they need to for unblocking a ticket. Again, managers and PM can see the captain's log for each dev, and they don't need to "check in", which can feel like micromanagement in a lot of cases, since devs are regularly logging everything. If the log is signaling that a dev is getting bogged down or stuck with something, the manager can reach out and follow up on that, ask more about the situation, etc. Devs can only share a non-timestamped version of their logs to other devs that are working on similar or related tickets, so that the focus is more on challenges that were encountered, rather than the time it took to finish the ticket

- The team can still meet up periodically to informally chat about random stuff, for social cohesion, like a wrap up on friday where everyone asks about what they have planned for the weekend, or monday morning where everyone can ask what people did on the weekend, all non-work related

- Devs don't know other devs estimates, so devs are more focused on working together rather than some sort of pressure where they're pitted against each other when they should be working together. Bob might be the most productive person on the team, but he still needs to get along with everyone else, and Mary might have more domain knowledge and work better for a particular task than Bob, etc.

Re: Why Scrum is stressing you out

#438
Every fucking day our boss gives us a motivational talk, every fucking day i have to see his face for over an hour, every day he says over and over we must do 14 points daily of tasks cards or whatever name You use, whats 1 point? 30 minutes. Yes, so all of us are adjusting our work so he's satisfied, i hate my job, i don't want to develop anything,i need the holidays law offers me. Everyone must do a video at the end of the week, every single day i have to write what i did right, wrong and what could i do better. I hope some day this madness stop but i'm not counting on it. Whrn My daighters finish their studies i Will quit this sad madness and do anything else, maybe selling bread, coca cola, fruits, i dont know. I had code review that turns out to be for all of us, do it again the way i like it, so every single tasks had to bee done twice and please don't make me remember clean code, 10 classes 20 functions to iterate an array and send a post request becausr someday it could ve reused... I hate this, wrong carreer. EOL

Re: Why Scrum is stressing you out

#439
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just completely ignore sprints, or sprint/standup meetings. Somehow it works well enough that nobody has called me out on it yet. If they all want to waste 2 hours a day, more power to them.

I just find American corporate culture to be 90% about participation, not really results, but being there, being a "team player" and being really nice to everyone. Not necessarily bad things, but compared to Australian work culture (for example), America is really about "the teaaarrrmm".

Yeah, I worked with a bunch of people in the US a while ago, and I had the impression that they were playing house or something. I'm all for treating each other with respect, but that means something different to me than the constant. virtue signalling going on there.

US people tend to say that Dutch people are very blunt, but it feels like that should just be normal? If you do a bad job I'm not going to tell you that it was nice you tried so hard.

Re: Why Scrum is stressing you out

#440
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just completely ignore sprints, or sprint/standup meetings. Somehow it works well enough that nobody has called me out on it yet. If they all want to waste 2 hours a day, more power to them.

If your stand-up meeting is more than 15 minutes long you are doing it wrong. It's called stand-up for a reason. https://scrumguides.org/scrum-guide.html#daily-scrum > The purpose of the Daily Scrum is to inspect progress toward the Sprint Goal and adapt the Sprint Backlog as necessary, adjusting the upcoming planned work. The Daily Scrum is a 15-minute event for the Developers of the Scrum Team. To reduce complexity…

It doesn't matter what is written on a random website (even _the_ scrum website) if nobody actually follows what's written there and still calls it scrum. The de-facto definition of scrum is what people make of it.
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