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macOS Sequoia is available today

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Re: macOS Sequoia is available today

#521

Post by mystcb »

gorkish wrote: post #339
kemayo wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Screen-recording permission once every week ? Every month. (Which is still annoying, but not the raw level of frustration that weekly would be.)

Do you still have to quit and restart the entire application after you give the permission? Holy shit mac users are gonna become a meme in meetings. MacOS is turning into quite the poo log lately. I respect that Apple has every right to completely destroy the legacy of the Macintosh, but they are slow playing it so that it's just a little bit better than the alternatives. The end result is my life gets just a little…

> Do you still have to quit and restart the entire application after you give the permission?

The funny thing about this, even on Sonoma - I could click the button to allow it, when it said "restart app" I closed the box (or clicked cancel), and it worked anyway. Specifically, I noticed it more on things like Teams/Zoom where I was doing a screen share, it just "worked" - no need to restart the entire application.

Re: macOS Sequoia is available today

#522

Post by nottorp »

atonse wrote: post #422
nottorp wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I like all the privacy protections that Safari gives me as a user. ... compared to Chrome, right? Not to Firefox with uBlock Origin and Facebook and Google containers ...

Yeah compared to Chrome. I do like and respect Firefox but it’s hard to take them too seriously as a separate competitor if all their revenue comes from Google. But what choice do they have?

Well, something about head and ass. I looked into doing a one time donation to them earlier this year but they pushed so hard for a recurring one that they put me off and didn't even get the one time.

Besides, from other discussions mostly on HN I get the impression that you can donate to them but you don't know if the money will go to the browser or to their latest crypto or "AI" initiative.

Re: macOS Sequoia is available today

#523

Post by rahen »

graeme wrote: post #306
rahen wrote: post #18

Will Apple Intelligence be available in the EU after all?

No, the DMA very likely bans it. The EU won't say in advance and has been loudly threatening fines of 10% of global revenue. DMA forbids using your platform's data or position to support a service without giving third parties equal access. Third parties are pretty clearly excluded from screen mirroring or running ai on device, so these seem like things Apple can't legally launch in the EU.

I understand the Eurocrats really want to protect us, but sometimes I wish I were protected from the Eurocrats.

Re: macOS Sequoia is available today

#524

Post by rahen »

robinsonrc wrote: post #493
sunny_sigara wrote: post #209

Most annoying problems so far.. 1. Screen-recording permission once every week ? 2. No more sudo spctl —master-disable. Alternative way is bit complicated. 2. No more control+ click to bypass gatekeeper. 3. Why tcutil reset Accessibility not working for a specific app? It works for “All” . 4. Script to convert NSURL node ref url to posix url not working. 5. Normal usb Mouse pointer acceleration is not smooth. May be…

macOS is very gradually moving in the wrong direction for me. I never really saw myself considering desktop Linux again but I’m almost starting to get excited by the idea. For now I’ll just hold off on the update as none of it seems particularly compelling, especially as a happy Rectangle user (with all its key bindings nicely isolated from macOS preferences and synced along with the rest of my dotfiles)

I feel the same and decided my next update would be to Asahi (Fedora or Ubuntu). I switched from Linux to macOS a few years ago, but I never really felt like I was the target user for this environment. It always feels like I have to adapt to the walled garden of Apple's ecosystem, rather than it adapting to me.

Re: macOS Sequoia is available today

#525

Post by simonask »

Pesthuf wrote: post #378
simonask wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? This is _huge_ to you? How many unsigned apps are you downloading and running? This is one of those features where the benefits seem to very obviously outweigh the drawbacks. 99.9% of users just aren't running unsigned software, so the moment that happens, it is most certainly malware. If you're developing software yourself, this isn't an issue either, since all the relevant toolchains, debuggers, etc., work…

Quite a lot apparently considering how often I have to bypass gatekeeper. I don't really see how the average user is positively affected by these changes - it's not like they will accidentally open terminal and enter random strings infinite monkey theorem style until they hit sudo spctl –master-disable. Ctrl-click was at least possible to stumble over, but I see no good reason not to at least provide a .plist setting…

The problem is not - and has never been - accidentally stumbling on insecure features. The problem is social engineering, where inexperienced users are guided by malware operators to run insecure software, either over the phone or through countless malware sites on the web that claim to solve their problems.

These are real, tangible risks.

Re: macOS Sequoia is available today

#526

Post by simonask »

jezek2 wrote: post #435
simonask wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? This is _huge_ to you? How many unsigned apps are you downloading and running? This is one of those features where the benefits seem to very obviously outweigh the drawbacks. 99.9% of users just aren't running unsigned software, so the moment that happens, it is most certainly malware. If you're developing software yourself, this isn't an issue either, since all the relevant toolchains, debuggers, etc., work…

As a creator of a programming language that can compile binaries of any supported platform from any platform it is an unsolveable problem. I can't do the signing as it requires Apple stuff. Not to mention it is unethical to require it as it's used for gatekeeping not just security (requiring Apple to decide if you can run an executable is unacceptable). Compare it to Android where you can use self-signed certificates…

I hope you're able to see how your use case is incredibly niche, and should not be a priority for a general security model for an operating system.

Your problems are extremely insignificant in the big picture, where the priority of a serious operating system should be to support regular people in avoiding malware and malicious social engineering. macOS is a general purpose operating system, not a hobbyist or tinkerer OS, and the vast majority of its users are non-technical.

I get that it's annoying, but pushing the work on you is a massive benefit to your users.

Re: macOS Sequoia is available today

#528

Post by adastra22 »

Hamuko wrote: post #482
adastra22 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of options for that on macOS, the most common being homebrew and MacPorts.

Homebrew defaults to downloading binaries.

Defaults to. You can tell it to compile yourself, if that matters to you. I don’t see what the issue is here. Why is it a problem that it defaults to binary distribution?

Re: macOS Sequoia is available today

#529

Post by adastra22 »

int_19h wrote: post #503
adastra22 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me these are clear security improvements; things are not getting worse. And there is absolutely no reason to think they'll be dropping support for endusers running their own compiled software.

The obvious end point would be the same as iOS, which is to say - you can run it to your heart's content, provided that you shell out for a dev certificate.

That is not at all obvious.

Re: macOS Sequoia is available today

#530

Post by jezek2 »

simonask wrote: post #526
jezek2 wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a creator of a programming language that can compile binaries of any supported platform from any platform it is an unsolveable problem. I can't do the signing as it requires Apple stuff. Not to mention it is unethical to require it as it's used for gatekeeping not just security (requiring Apple to decide if you can run an executable is unacceptable). Compare it to Android where you can use self-signed certificates…

I hope you're able to see how your use case is incredibly niche, and should not be a priority for a general security model for an operating system. Your problems are extremely insignificant in the big picture, where the priority of a serious operating system should be to support regular people in avoiding malware and malicious social engineering. macOS is a general purpose operating system, not a hobbyist or tinkerer…

You're right that as a developer of the language it's quite niche position, however the language is then used by developers to create actual applications and they're affected by this, or rather the users are.

It also allows to be used from a C/C++ project so you can do all the required steps, but it's quite more involved compared to simply building the software for all platforms at once.

It's also not related to how popular my language is. It affects any language including C/C++ if you want to have unified cross-compilation to all supported platforms (which is quite typical for any serious project).

You may not be aware but Apple has put roadblocks for such usages as well, you can't rent a Mac VM for automatic builds, it has to be rented for 24 hours at minimum. Using someone's private Mac for building may not be a good idea for various reasons.

And then you compare it to other platforms that don't require anything like this. I even mentioned Android which shows that you can use signing to provide a security aspect without the gatekeeping aspect.

The issue is wider and basically it's an anticompetitive behavior of Apple to any competitor to Xcode.

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