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John Carmack "not all that excited" by next-gen hardware

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Re: John Carmack "not all that excited" by next-gen hardware

#51

Post by mortenjorck »

recursive wrote: post #48
moe wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I liked UT in its day, but isn't TF2 the current gold-standard?

When I tried playing it, it was a very confusing experience. The built in tutorial was very simple, and the actual game didn't resemble it much at all. I gave up.

I think what has multiplied the confusion factor in the years since it was released (can you believe the game came out in 2007?) is the... culture that has sprung up around it, fueled by a unique feedback loop between fans and Valve. There's this whole strange world of hats, crafting, backstories, inside jokes, Australia, and hats that has coalesced, making it about as culturally daunting for a newcomer as an established Blizzard game.

This feedback loop has evolved what was once billed as a "class-based team action game" to, and I quote Valve's official PR, "America's favorite war-themed hat simulator." I'm not kidding.

Re: John Carmack "not all that excited" by next-gen hardware

#52

Post by starship »

JVIDEL wrote: post #8

Dude, Carmack was never a consoles guy, he didn't like the Genesis nor the SNES, he didn't like the Playstation, Saturn and N64, etc... If he was excited by nextgen consoles, now THAT would be news...

The 1990's were fifteen years ago. Since then Carmack has spent 60 hours per week writing code for every conceivable console, PC, and mobile platform. Most people in his position would have moved into management by this point, he chose not to. As a result he has more expertise on more topics than just about anyone else in the gaming industry. And more than most in computer science generally. If he has an opinion on something, its because he knows what he's talking about.

Re: John Carmack "not all that excited" by next-gen hardware

#53

Post by heretohelp »

Tycho wrote: post #39
Negitivefrags wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rage uses a new rendering approach in which every surface has a unique texture. In a normal game, textures are reused all over the place. The texture compression Rage uses is actually very good, it's just that the data set is massive. Their raw data set is much, much larger than what they shipped. Carmack has given out figures like 300gb per level. In order to cull that down to a game that can fit in 24gb, they had t…

Maybe in future games, textures will be loaded and stored on a P2P basis, like how Spotify streams songs from the machines of other users.

Please. No.

Re: John Carmack "not all that excited" by next-gen hardware

#54

Post by johnchristopher »

MikeCapone wrote: post #43
johnchristopher wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Arguably Duke Nukem 3D looked better than Quake, but polygonal was the future. Half-Life 2 looked better than Doom 3, but dynamic lighting was the future. Maybe so but almost 10 years later and half-life 2 is still more enjoyable than doom3. Quake1 and quake3 are the only id games that are remembered not only for their tech advancements (and of course, commander keen). Now if we had had source engine facial and bod…

> Quake1 and quake3 are the only id games that are remembered not only for their tech advancements (and of course, commander keen). I would say that Doom belongs at the top of that list.

I don't know, maybe. In my mind doom1 was too much of a "superwolfenstein", only 2 players max., no immersive ambiance (that is subjective of course). But it's a given fact doom1 was a major stepstone. As far as I am concerned I don't remember a lot of good moments with doom1 (on the other hand Q1 MP did :) Maybe I was playing too much console games at that time though, or maybe replaying kirandia or flashback for the 23d time.

Disclaimer: I always disliked dn3D, didn't like the mood of it.

Re: John Carmack "not all that excited" by next-gen hardware

#55

Post by bookwormAT »

phoboslab wrote: post #12

I love how Carmack is constantly pushing the industry forward. He made raycasting engines when everyone else was still doing 2D stuff. He made fully 3D games when everyone else was still using raycasting. He built a game engine with completely dynamic lighting, when everyone else was still relying on lightmaps and some cheap hacks. Arguably Duke Nukem 3D looked better than Quake, but polygonal was the future. Half-Li…

I agree with every bit you wrote about John Carmack's contribution to gaming hardware and computer graphics.

But it should also be noted that both these topics are not that important in the gaming industry as they used to be when Carmack started. Graphics have become "good enough" for 3D in 2004 or so, and much earlier for 2D.

The bottlenecks in todays video games are in Artificial Intelligence (for simulations), game mechanics and story telling (which is on a all time low if you ask me).

The latest Game from Carmack I know of, Rage, was just more or less the same as every other "AAA" shooter released within the last 6 years.

Re: John Carmack "not all that excited" by next-gen hardware

#56

Post by nixarn »

ivankirigin wrote: post #50

Is the related kickstarter active yet? Link?

Not yet, it was planned to go live 1.5 weeks ago, but some "good news" delayed it by 2 weeks, so it should probably go live this week. And the good news might be some great hardware partner(s).

Re: John Carmack "not all that excited" by next-gen hardware

#57

Post by maggit »

johnchristopher wrote: post #54
MikeCapone wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Quake1 and quake3 are the only id games that are remembered not only for their tech advancements (and of course, commander keen). I would say that Doom belongs at the top of that list.

I don't know, maybe. In my mind doom1 was too much of a "superwolfenstein", only 2 players max., no immersive ambiance (that is subjective of course). But it's a given fact doom1 was a major stepstone. As far as I am concerned I don't remember a lot of good moments with doom1 (on the other hand Q1 MP did :) Maybe I was playing too much console games at that time though, or maybe replaying kirandia or flashback for th…

This is definitely subjective.

I recently replayed Doom 2 with a couple of friends, and for us this is definitely a legendary game. I have lots of fond memories of Doom 1 as well. While I also spent a lot of time with Duke Nukem 3D, I never found it as enjoyable as Doom. I'd put Doom in the list before Quake.

Wolfenstein 3D should also be there.

Luckily for me, you are the one making the sweeping statement, so I only have to provide a counter-example: I remember Doom and Wolfenstein for the enjoyment they gave me. You are too quick to dismiss them :)

(And just as a matter of factual correction; Doom 1 and 2 both supported four players over IPX)

Re: John Carmack "not all that excited" by next-gen hardware

#58

Post by tluyben2 »

bookwormAT wrote: post #55
phoboslab wrote: post #12

I love how Carmack is constantly pushing the industry forward. He made raycasting engines when everyone else was still doing 2D stuff. He made fully 3D games when everyone else was still using raycasting. He built a game engine with completely dynamic lighting, when everyone else was still relying on lightmaps and some cheap hacks. Arguably Duke Nukem 3D looked better than Quake, but polygonal was the future. Half-Li…

I agree with every bit you wrote about John Carmack's contribution to gaming hardware and computer graphics. But it should also be noted that both these topics are not that important in the gaming industry as they used to be when Carmack started. Graphics have become "good enough" for 3D in 2004 or so, and much earlier for 2D. The bottlenecks in todays video games are in Artificial Intelligence (for simulations), gam…

Yes; that's why I like Indie games more now; they are more creative with game mechanics + story telling. I think the current next-gen hardware is not enough of a leap to make enough difference; if you just take the Unreal engine it'll all look nice now. Complex AI or actual realistic human + animal movement of body/face (no, currently they are not) would require a lot more advances in hardware/software. For a big jump in AI I would say memristors would be something. But after HP shouting that they would be selling them last year, the hype died down :)

Re: John Carmack "not all that excited" by next-gen hardware

#59

Post by Tooluka »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #3

I'm not all that excited about John Carmack's antiquated view of the video game market. While there are companies releasing swaths of titles in different genres, he's got... Doom 3. Yay, whatever. Most people will not spend $500 on a peripheral. You can get some hardcore gamers to do it, but unless the VR gear also includes a wireless headset, you're shit out of luck. So now you're looking at close to $600 bucks a un…

Video games market IS antiquated. Crappy gamepad controllers, requirement to use TVs, hardware upgrades lock for 5-6 years, dumbed down games (as a result of gamepad use). Sure, it has billion marketing budgets, easy to start using equipment, but technologically it is antiquated.

Re: John Carmack "not all that excited" by next-gen hardware

#60

Post by ctdonath »

slurgfest wrote: post #5
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #3

I'm not all that excited about John Carmack's antiquated view of the video game market. While there are companies releasing swaths of titles in different genres, he's got... Doom 3. Yay, whatever. Most people will not spend $500 on a peripheral. You can get some hardcore gamers to do it, but unless the VR gear also includes a wireless headset, you're shit out of luck. So now you're looking at close to $600 bucks a un…

John Carmack has written 3D engines widely used in commercial games for decades now (most recently Rage - whatever its demerits as a game, the technology is cutting edge and the game is definitely not antique). Whether or not you liked the content in Doom 3 has very little to do with Carmack's very technical, back-end work. When the 3dfx boards came out, they cost something like $500. But it still opened up a big mar…

I don't see why you are assuming that a wireless headset is necessary and will not be included.

Wireless VR is very important. Getting tangled in cables while you're physically thrashing around sucks. Trust me (owner of original Virtual iGlasses).

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