Amazon tells employees to return to office five days a week • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon tells employees to return to office five days a week

#381

Post by ahmeneeroe-v2 » Mon, Sep 16, 2024, 9:44 PM UTC

spacemadness wrote: post #285

I feel like Big Tech management is simply in revenge mode. Managers and executives felt a tiny bit less powerful for a small amount of time due to their workers pushing for remote and having the leverage to do so. Now that interest rates have wrecked the employment market they are wasting no time going scorched earth on their current remote employees. The narratives they keep shoving down peoples throats are insultin…

Thinking like this doesn't help you understand the game, and if you don't understand the game, you can't play it.

Re: Amazon tells employees to return to office five days a week

#382

Post by eptcyka » Mon, Sep 16, 2024, 9:44 PM UTC

spacemadness wrote: post #285

I feel like Big Tech management is simply in revenge mode. Managers and executives felt a tiny bit less powerful for a small amount of time due to their workers pushing for remote and having the leverage to do so. Now that interest rates have wrecked the employment market they are wasting no time going scorched earth on their current remote employees. The narratives they keep shoving down peoples throats are insultin…

I worked remotely years before the pandemic, and it was great, for the most part. But there are people who definitely hate it. And there are also people who love it, but can't be trusted with it.

Re: Amazon tells employees to return to office five days a week

#383

Post by codingwagie » Mon, Sep 16, 2024, 9:45 PM UTC

nextworddev wrote: post #226

"Everyone I know at Amazon is over-worked and stressed out" is the biggest myth. Practically the majority of middle management I knew at AMZN didn't do anything. Source: ex-AWS

Managers at Amazon just enforce dates and identify the underperformer on their team.

Re: Amazon tells employees to return to office five days a week

#384

Post by xyst » Mon, Sep 16, 2024, 9:46 PM UTC

What sucks is that other companies will follow Amazon because “Amazon did it”. Other company I worked at went to a “hybrid model” to be followed at the end of last year. Ended up “silent quitting” by using up all of my PTO and sick time which allowed enough time to get my bonus and find a new job. Of course I was put on a PIP but by that time I was already gone, lol.

Re: Amazon tells employees to return to office five days a week

#385

Post by mathverse » Mon, Sep 16, 2024, 9:46 PM UTC

darthapple76 wrote: post #267

pknomad wrote: post #117

Genuine question for the folks over at Amazon: What is the value of working at Amazon (or even just AWS) these days? Every now and then I get a ring from a recruiter gauging my interest and sometimes I get the itch to just to go through the process so that I can have a FAANG in my resume. I've heard from others that Amazon could be an amazing place to work, citing fantastic colleagues and work opportunities. But then…

In Europe they're one of the biggest tech employers. Relatively low hiring bar, one of the better paying, and generally stable job unless you're really bad.

Never heard of this? Where? What location?

Re: Amazon tells employees to return to office five days a week

#386

Post by lolinder » Mon, Sep 16, 2024, 9:46 PM UTC

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #335

spacemadness wrote: post #285

I feel like Big Tech management is simply in revenge mode. Managers and executives felt a tiny bit less powerful for a small amount of time due to their workers pushing for remote and having the leverage to do so. Now that interest rates have wrecked the employment market they are wasting no time going scorched earth on their current remote employees. The narratives they keep shoving down peoples throats are insultin…

> I feel like Big Tech management is simply in revenge mode Doesn’t this sound like tribal, us-versus-them, reductive explanation for the behavior of those you disagree with?

Tribalism is in, nuance is out. I'm as much a fan of WFH as anyone and will never go back into an office, but posts like OP's aren't getting us anywhere—they just reinforce the idea that WFH is an immature demand of an entitled and antagonistic subset of engineers who they'd be better off losing anyway.

Re: Amazon tells employees to return to office five days a week

#387

Post by ryukoposting » Mon, Sep 16, 2024, 9:47 PM UTC

ivraatiems wrote: post #362

A note for engineers looking for jobs, based on this and about a thousand similar posts: If you joined a "remote" company that went remote during the pandemic, no, you didn't. Look for companies that went full-remote before 2020, or after ~2022. Otherwise, it can't be trusted.

Companies that went full-remote around 2020-2021 are more likely to try to drag people back into the office, but I wouldn't suggest that you don't interview with those companies.

The best thing you can do is get to the finish line, get the offer sheet, and demand that your position as a full-time remote worker be written into your agreement with the company.

FWIW I know someone who did exactly this with a defense prime, and the crazy fella actually won the battle with HR when they tried to bring everyone back into the office.

Worst case scenario, they say "no," you decline the offer, and you've sent a clear message to management. It might feel like a few hours of wasted time, but we as industry practitioners have the power to make this a normal interaction between a prospective hire and a stubborn corporation.

Re: Amazon tells employees to return to office five days a week

#388

Post by dividefuel » Mon, Sep 16, 2024, 9:47 PM UTC

AviationAtom wrote: post #331

spacemadness wrote: post #285

I feel like Big Tech management is simply in revenge mode. Managers and executives felt a tiny bit less powerful for a small amount of time due to their workers pushing for remote and having the leverage to do so. Now that interest rates have wrecked the employment market they are wasting no time going scorched earth on their current remote employees. The narratives they keep shoving down peoples throats are insultin…

I think it's more the few bad apples that spoil the bunch. Have you heard of over-employment? There are people working 2-3 full-time jobs, pulling over $500k, while actually putting in only a few hours worth of work each week. There are a ton more that are working one job, but likewise giving very little output. It's harder to catch those folks in the act when they don't physically have to be present in the office. W…

This feels like a strawman. How many people are working multiple jobs? How many are doing it effectively enough to not get caught nor fired for poor performance? And, if they are able to somehow juggle multiple jobs without performance/NDA issues, then is it really a problem?

Re: Amazon tells employees to return to office five days a week

#389

Post by kardianos » Mon, Sep 16, 2024, 9:47 PM UTC

arunabha wrote: post #359

spacemadness wrote: post #285

I feel like Big Tech management is simply in revenge mode. Managers and executives felt a tiny bit less powerful for a small amount of time due to their workers pushing for remote and having the leverage to do so. Now that interest rates have wrecked the employment market they are wasting no time going scorched earth on their current remote employees. The narratives they keep shoving down peoples throats are insultin…

Yes,revenge(or rather a desire for reversion to the previous norm) might be part of the reason, however there might be another aspect which makes it more urgent for the execs WFH is overwhelmingly popular amongst employees and has the most potential to be a topic tech workers band together on. Tech employees realizing that collective action can work genuinely terrifies execs. Therefore it's imperative to the moneyed…

I have always work remotely. I know many people who should not be trusted with work from home. Believe it or not, people are selfish, including workers, not just the managers and execs.

Re: Amazon tells employees to return to office five days a week

#390

Post by PhasmaFelis » Mon, Sep 16, 2024, 9:48 PM UTC

AviationAtom wrote: post #331

spacemadness wrote: post #285

I feel like Big Tech management is simply in revenge mode. Managers and executives felt a tiny bit less powerful for a small amount of time due to their workers pushing for remote and having the leverage to do so. Now that interest rates have wrecked the employment market they are wasting no time going scorched earth on their current remote employees. The narratives they keep shoving down peoples throats are insultin…

I think it's more the few bad apples that spoil the bunch. Have you heard of over-employment? There are people working 2-3 full-time jobs, pulling over $500k, while actually putting in only a few hours worth of work each week. There are a ton more that are working one job, but likewise giving very little output. It's harder to catch those folks in the act when they don't physically have to be present in the office. W…

"A handful of employees might not be performing to spec, and we can't be bothered to find a good way to measure that, so let's screw over hundreds and hundreds of good employees instead" is still basically malice.