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Craig Wright said he invented Bitcoin – lawyers proved him wrong

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Re: Craig Wright said he invented Bitcoin – lawyers proved him wrong

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if it were to happen, what are the chances a fork of Bitcoin (that doesn’t respect this ruling) becomes more mainstream than Bitcoin? Less than 10%, and that’s generous.

I see it the other way. 10% chance that the Craitoshi fork of BTC becomes mainstream.

Agreed.

I was the one to bring up the DAO, but the situation is completely different when you get into the details.

The DAO was hugely hyped by early eth adopters. If you were into eth, you were into The DAO. For the DAO to be hacked was like eth being hacked. When vitalik and the eth devs supported it, it was easy for the community to fall in line.

Any Craig shenanigans would have absolute 0 support and be the exact opposite.

Re: Craig Wright said he invented Bitcoin – lawyers proved him wrong

#102
post #95
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's trying to trigger some super-stimulus response in his targets based on being a rich supergenius entrepreneur. It's more effective than you might think. The fact that his actions don't actually look much like the rich, a supergenuis, or an entrepreneur doesn't matter-- the target is people that don't actually know what that looks like. It's the same reason that he claims to have earned more than 20 postgraduate d…

thank you for your insight. My only confusion is why is he targeting that strata of humans, surely he should be focusing on the impression he gives to the lawyers, rich, techies.

He'll never reliably convince technical people.

But I think more than anything, the stuff he does would convince him. Write what you know, you know?

Having a number of people thoroughly convinced seems to be a key to getting others who might otherwise know better to fail to apply their judgement.

And if its stupid but it works, it's not stupid. :-/

Re: Craig Wright said he invented Bitcoin – lawyers proved him wrong

#103
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are mmmmmany such examples. The term, as I mentioned, is domesticating the judgement. In California the primary governing law is https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2009/ccp/1713-1724.h... (though there is similar/equivalent statute in most? all? other states) -- there are other laws for non-monetary damages though non-US non-monetary relief may be hard to domesticate because we generally don't do specific…

Interesting, thanks very much for the links and info. It seems NY is notably a state that does not have an equivilant to that CA legilslation, I'm based in NY so I wonder if that's why I was less aware of this. I'm honestly surprised at this because there could be so many complications, and laws in a foreign country could be so different as to be incompatible with US laws. Although the wiki does say it's up to a judg…

Assuming the foreign judgement passes various criteria (e.g. not being repugnant to the constution) it's essentially treated as a contract to make the payment-- as if you had some agreement to pay the other party, and enforced as such.

Feedback I've heard ranges from "almost always" to "typically", but I've never seen actual stats on it. It's going to be pretty fact specific, so unless your case maps well to a common fact pattern any statistic may not be too useful.

It's common enough in any case that several state's passed laws to deal with foreign (particularly UK) defamation lawsuits, and then a federal law. So a specific kind of abuse of this process was common enough for a federal law on the subject.

Sadly it seems we lacked the foresight to realize that to the extent that many of these were false and malicious cases that the parties can just cook up some other grounds. So when Wright sued critics in Norway, the UK, and Antigua he did so on the basis of defamation, but when his target list included US persons he didn't use a defamation claim.

> If you're in the UK and I'm in the US and I sue you, it doesn't seem reasonable to expect you to have to travel here or to spend money on local representation to defend yourself.

So one of the reasons to deny domestication is that the foreign court didn't properly have jurisdiction over the subject matter. If I had no connection to the US then there wouldn't be a reasonable basis to claim the US court had jurisdiction over me.

But if you and I had some interaction then on the basis of that interaction I might have subjected myself to your jurisdiction. The internet has made it easy to arguably be subject to any jurisdiction anywhere in the world. If you look at some of the arguments in English courts (for example) on jurisdiction they like to emphasize e.g. that someone publishes in English documents which are available and read in the UK. There is a bar for jurisdiction, it's a real bar, but it's not necessarily a particularly high bar.

To complicate matters, summary judgements and other pre-trial judgements like jurisdiction are generally decided on a basis of assuming the claimant's facts are all true. This is a real problem with litigating with an unashamed liar who is primarily interested in damaging you with the process, since they can just make up whatever facts they need to keep the case going.

You don't have to convince me that the existing process is not good. I think it made more sense decades ago when it was much harder for an ordinary person to be arguably subject to arbitrary jurisdictions.

Aside, NY does have domestication rules too, though it does sound like they're somewhat better than the more common version. (e.g. safer to take a default judgement)-- though I haven't really looked into them.

Re: Craig Wright said he invented Bitcoin – lawyers proved him wrong

#104
post #42

If he's not Satoshi and doesn't have Satoshi's keys the what is the point of saying he is Satoshi? Seems like a long way to go for some notoriety and no financial gain.

He did manage to bamboozle the billionaire Calvin Ayre, who financially backed up Craig. Seems like a pretty fruitful scam to be honest.

There is a perennial debate in the community of enthusiasts that track these cases and Wright's escapades to what degree and at what times was Calvin Ayre bamboozled or, at least, the specific form of his bamboozle.

There is reasonable evidence that Ayre's most recent involvement is knowing-- in the form of leaked emails where Ayre discusses how his media outlet will spin Wright's faked documents. There is also leaked emails describing of witness bribing, and offers of payments to barristers of 100 million pounds which sound corrupt and not like the actions of someone who thought they were legitimately pursuing justice.

By "specific form" what I mean is that it's possible that Ayre doesn't believe (or even never believed) Wright was Satoshi and if so Ayre still could have been conned.

One of the most common form of large scale "Big con"'s is a pattern where you convince a mark that you intend to do some fraudulent thing to someone else, and you invite them to participate. This solves a lot of problems for the conman, like "If this is such a great deal, why hasn't someone else taken it? Why offer it to me?", "Why should I keep this a secret", "How could a deal this good be real?", etc.-- (answer: because it's illegal). In any case, the idea is that the mark thinks he's in on the con when he's really the target. "We're totally gonna rob this bank, we just need a minor advance of $20,000 to preload safe deposit boxes..."

So tying it back in, Ayre might have at one point believed the claim that Wright was Satoshi... but then Wright might have been forced to admit he wasn't and then invited Ayre to participate in the fraudulent "recovery" of Satoshi's coins. This 'recovery' isn't possible, of course, but Ayre doesn't know that and Wright has milked him for much of a decade on the basis of that ignorance.

When the facts are kinda fuzzy it can be hard to tell which explanation is the simplest that is consistent with the facts.

Re: Craig Wright said he invented Bitcoin – lawyers proved him wrong

#105
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the crypto industry would go on. It's just Satoshi would rather keep his head down.

I really expected Satoshi to move his bitcoin between wallets during the trial.

Wright would just claim he moved it.

Re: Craig Wright said he invented Bitcoin – lawyers proved him wrong

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's prudent to remember to always use Times New Roman when committing fraud.

Still doesn't work, NSA has a backdoor agreement with "Big Font" to put little tags in fonts to pinpoint the time, data, and individual authoring the pdf or similar. Similar to how they watermark laser printers, the waterfont the fonts

What's stopping anyone from using a front from a Windows 95 install? How would what you say apply?

Re: Craig Wright said he invented Bitcoin – lawyers proved him wrong

#107
post #102
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thank you for your insight. My only confusion is why is he targeting that strata of humans, surely he should be focusing on the impression he gives to the lawyers, rich, techies.

He'll never reliably convince technical people. But I think more than anything, the stuff he does would convince him . Write what you know, you know? Having a number of people thoroughly convinced seems to be a key to getting others who might otherwise know better to fail to apply their judgement. And if its stupid but it works, it's not stupid. :-/

I think its more about, regardless of how smart he was, just the fact he tried, was enough for it to work due to odd mysterious circumstances perhaps.

I dont know tbh

Re: Craig Wright said he invented Bitcoin – lawyers proved him wrong

#108
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He'll never reliably convince technical people. But I think more than anything, the stuff he does would convince him . Write what you know, you know? Having a number of people thoroughly convinced seems to be a key to getting others who might otherwise know better to fail to apply their judgement. And if its stupid but it works, it's not stupid. :-/

I think its more about, regardless of how smart he was, just the fact he tried, was enough for it to work due to odd mysterious circumstances perhaps. I dont know tbh

There is nothing odd about the fact that most people don't validate claims they receive most of the time, particularly if there appears to be a lot of other people adopting that view.

Re: Craig Wright said he invented Bitcoin – lawyers proved him wrong

#109
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, thanks very much for the links and info. It seems NY is notably a state that does not have an equivilant to that CA legilslation, I'm based in NY so I wonder if that's why I was less aware of this. I'm honestly surprised at this because there could be so many complications, and laws in a foreign country could be so different as to be incompatible with US laws. Although the wiki does say it's up to a judg…

Assuming the foreign judgement passes various criteria (e.g. not being repugnant to the constution) it's essentially treated as a contract to make the payment-- as if you had some agreement to pay the other party, and enforced as such. Feedback I've heard ranges from "almost always" to "typically", but I've never seen actual stats on it. It's going to be pretty fact specific, so unless your case maps well to a common…

Thank you muchly for your reply, it's very informative and I greatly appreciate it!

Re: Craig Wright said he invented Bitcoin – lawyers proved him wrong

#110
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's prudent to remember to always use Times New Roman when committing fraud.

Note that although the Roman Empire started around 27 BC, Times New Roman is only good for fraud going back to 1932 AD.

Papyrus?
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