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How America's universities became debt factories

anandsanwal.me

511–520 of 564 posts

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#511
Why merely target universities?

Think of high school, while most people do not pay fees directly while in high school your taxes pay for it. Most people for most occupations only require perhaps 5 years of staggered high school education. One can have an (extended) apprentice or higher degrees for others.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#512
post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your example of having engineering degrees but spending much of your working life writing is a good example of how income and academic degree don't necessarily go together. If you get training rather than an education you have a clear path but if the job you trained for is not hiring when you need a job you can be SOL.

Basically no one has cared what degrees or certifications I have in decades. (The one caveat is the fact that I went to the same school as the ultimate hiring manager probably didn't hurt. But the decision had probably already been made at a higher level.)

The problem for people starting in the world of work in the USA is that its very hard to get a job that pays real money without degrees, certifications, and contacts. Its also much easier for most people to do the 'looks good feels good' thing if you know you have been successful and well paid in job X, and job Y would be similar. So once you are established in an industry your experience and self-acquired skills matter more than your degree, but getting in to that industry is hard And the housing shortage in most rich countries makes it hard to spend 5 or 10 years trying different things until you establish yourself in an industry that works for you.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#513
post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically no one has cared what degrees or certifications I have in decades. (The one caveat is the fact that I went to the same school as the ultimate hiring manager probably didn't hurt. But the decision had probably already been made at a higher level.)

The problem for people starting in the world of work in the USA is that its very hard to get a job that pays real money without degrees, certifications, and contacts. Its also much easier for most people to do the 'looks good feels good' thing if you know you have been successful and well paid in job X, and job Y would be similar. So once you are established in an industry your experience and self-acquired skills mat…

Sure. People who have no signals (including contacts and credentials) have trouble lining up jobs other than (and maybe including) fast food. People need signals for professional work which include degrees and various sorts of credentials. I'm not sure it's much different anywhere else in the world.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#514
post #502
post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've never met a humanities PhD student without funding who should've been pursuing a PhD 1) In your entire life, how many humanities PhD students without funding have you met? Perhaps you think that, somehow, you've magically met most of them, since you seem to believe there aren't that many. 2) It's just your opinion whether an individual "should've been pursuing a PhD". > if the department you were in was so poo…

I think what may be going unsaid is there are some predatory practices that puff up the idea of a PhD to get people to attend a department that is otherwise struggling. It sounds like what you describe is rarer in better programs. That shouldn’t be taken as personal or an immutable law, just a general observation.

> I think what may be going unsaid is there are some predatory practices that puff up the idea of a PhD to get people to attend a department that is otherwise struggling.

No, it was already said:

>>> We're wondering if you were perhaps mislead somewhat

>> I wasn't.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#515
post #514
post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what may be going unsaid is there are some predatory practices that puff up the idea of a PhD to get people to attend a department that is otherwise struggling. It sounds like what you describe is rarer in better programs. That shouldn’t be taken as personal or an immutable law, just a general observation.

> I think what may be going unsaid is there are some predatory practices that puff up the idea of a PhD to get people to attend a department that is otherwise struggling. No, it was already said: >>> We're wondering if you were perhaps mislead somewhat >> I wasn't.

To reiterate, I was making a general point. You making it personal does not negate that point. If you re-read what I wrote, I was not implying you were mislead, but also that it isn’t rare in lesser programs. Not everything has to be true about you and your personal experience to be valid.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#516

: 0 matches. They didn’t go far enough back or broad enough. “We” decided that cheap college was too socialist and his people cooked up a scheme to make it more expensive and push the underclass and PoC into the GI bill. “You people” only get an education once you survive the military. But it made things worse for the middle class as well, as almost every5ing from Reaganomics has, and things have only snowballed from…

It wasn’t even to push people to the military, but literally to ensure “the wrong people” had more difficulty getting a university education—Reagan’s people came up with it as a reaction to Vietnam War protests.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#517
post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately since most of our jobs can be done remotely, that would likely drive a ton of software jobs overseas.

I was trying to keep my comment short. Such a regulatory regime would be expected to close such obvious loopholes. In much the same way that a doctor in $FOREIGN_COUNTRY cannot practice telemedicine in the USA, I would expect the regulations to make a distinction between software (and services provided by software) developed by foreign and licensed programmers.

>much the same way that a doctor in $FOREIGN_COUNTRY cannot practice telemedicine in the USA...

U.S. retired doctor here. This is a fascinating possibility that never occurred to me until I read your comment. Could a foreign doctor not set up a system whereby she/he could appear to be in the U.S. while being in a country that's essentially unreachable by U.S. authorities? And take payment in cryptocurrency?

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#518
post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's worth noting, by the way, that the United States has a shortage of medical doctors. That's a pipeline problem. What the U.S. actually has is a severe bottleneck in available places at medical schools and for residency training.

In addition, you must complete a four year degree in whatever before going to medical school.

Mine was in political science.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#519
post #515
post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think what may be going unsaid is there are some predatory practices that puff up the idea of a PhD to get people to attend a department that is otherwise struggling. No, it was already said: >>> We're wondering if you were perhaps mislead somewhat >> I wasn't.

To reiterate, I was making a general point. You making it personal does not negate that point. If you re-read what I wrote, I was not implying you were mislead, but also that it isn’t rare in lesser programs. Not everything has to be true about you and your personal experience to be valid.

> I was making a general point.

Nobody here has any evidence that their so-called "general" points are any more than their own personal anecdotal experience.

You're all trying to pretend that somehow you're experts and I'm just some clueless n00b, but that's ridiculous. At best, we're all on equal ground.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#520
post #519
post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To reiterate, I was making a general point. You making it personal does not negate that point. If you re-read what I wrote, I was not implying you were mislead, but also that it isn’t rare in lesser programs. Not everything has to be true about you and your personal experience to be valid.

> I was making a general point. Nobody here has any evidence that their so-called "general" points are any more than their own personal anecdotal experience. You're all trying to pretend that somehow you're experts and I'm just some clueless n00b, but that's ridiculous. At best, we're all on equal ground.

So your point is that well-renowned graduate programs are on an equal financial footing as those that are less well regarded?

I think it’s fairly well established that better programs have better funding. This generally results in more funding for PhD prospects. It’s great that you want to share your anecdotal experience, but don’t pretend that it means it’s a incontrovertible generalizable truth.

>Nobody here has any evidence

When someone relies on absolute language like “nobody” or “everyone”, it’s a clue they are making an emotional rather than a reasoned argument. In this case, there is data about funding and PhD opportunities.

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