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How America's universities became debt factories

anandsanwal.me

481–490 of 564 posts

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#481
post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're wondering if you were perhaps mislead somewhat I wasn't. But I'm not going to write an autobiography here. I already regret revealing personal details in this thread. > in our experience its quite rare for a department not to have any funded PhDs with stipends. Who is "our" and what is your "experience"? Are you referring to Telemakhos and yourself? Are either of you even former humanities PhD students? And h…

> Are either of you even former humanities PhD students? I have my PhD in Greek and Latin. I applied to many schools for my PhD program and, on the advice of professors who had told me what I repeated above, accepted admission to the department that gave me the best aid offer, not necessarily the one with the best reputation. They were right, and I never paid a dime for my education.

> accepted admission to the department that gave me the best aid offer, not necessarily the one with the best reputation.

That's a personal choice, but it's an obvious tradeoff with downsides. If you have a non-monetary goal — after all, pursuing a PhD in the humanities would be a crazy way to make money — then why would you let money stand in your way?

> They were right, and I never paid a dime for my education.

They were right in what sense? You could also never pay a dime for your education by never pursuing a PhD. Regardless, you spent valuable years of your life on it. That's a big investment, and time is more precious than money.

I am glad that you admitted, though, that some more prestigious schools may have less financial aid. There appeared to be a kind of denial of this reality before.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> complex debt instruments They are not complicated. Compound interest is middle school arithmetic. Too bad the public schools are inept at teaching math. I received a modest tuition loan when I went to college. There was no mystery about it. I made the payments after I graduated, and paid it off.

Username checks out. :) Ya the arithmetic is easy. Building up the associated algebraic expression(s) though is certainly high school level where I’m from. I wish I understood why math education is the way it is. I really have no idea. I suspect the problem’s complexities are both wide and deep

[deleted]

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#483
post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'In a more competitive market' sounds like an article of faith, akin to the No True Scotsman, where there's no definition of what is competitive enough until it meets the proponents' sniff test. What would a sufficiently competitive market entail? Has it ever existed? Would it look like modern US K-12 systems where commercial schools prioritize the most profitable students and leave the others to the public schools?…

>has it ever existed? This question being written as singular suggests to me you’re conflating some combination of education as a concept, education in America, and education in Europe. I see this as muddled thinking, they each have their own issues and their own timetables over which issues can and do exist. Education history in Europe is actually decently hyperlocal and pretty path dependent for each country during…

> but you seem to care about

I care about having actual definitions of what "more competitive market" and "vigorous market for education" means, and gave examples of markets with significant market failures.

Is it even possible to have a vigorous market without strong government oversight?

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#484
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would imagine in Europe they select more carefully the students whom will go to College. Here in the US we've told students that everyone must go to College You imagine wrong. Pretty much everyone goes to university in most and European countries. Even in wildly tourist dependent places, a degree in tourism is a normal thing for a young person to pursue before going to work at hotels/restaurants.

In Switzerland, it‘s only about 15%. The others most often do an apprenticeship: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/apprenticeship-system/... It‘s a pretty efficient (and quite unique) system. People learn to do their job at a normal company and attend school for usually two days a week. And they can still switch to the university track later without starting from the beginning.

Wow interesting! Swiss have also one of the highst gpd per capita. And the university EthZ beats most of other European universities.

The thing you mentioned is not unique to Swiss Germany had it as well. But I think still you have there more people who study...

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#485
Great article.

This is why am not too excited about elections. Both side promise a lot but execution is lax. While credit is due to Biden admin for infrastructure and Chips bill, his handling on forgiving student loan was a mess.

It was a one time shoddy fix. May as well make all loans the Same - based on risk, be discardable and the punishment is credit score ding if it’s not paid.

Non-dischargeable loans are a drain on the economy.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#486
IMO, the US govt should stop all student loans and make the universities fund the loans. Then the universities would have an incentive to make sure students graduate with degrees & skills that will allow them to pay back the loan.

THey'd also have an incentive to make their own operation run efficiently, ie, fewer high-paid administrators who do nothing and higher pay (and tenure) for professors who do all the work.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#487
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot the most important part. The people agreeing to these debts, by definition , do not have an education in complex debt instruments that cannot be discharged. Taking our a vast loan to study English literature might seem unwise, but it’s something I could definitely see a starry eyed 17 year old deciding to do.

Exactly - 12 years of education to get children ready to be citizens and not single class on how to manage a bank account, or even the most basic education about investments or actual wealth building. Instead, all I was told was to go to college. So... the people that made me woefully sheep like and "financially innocent" then sent me to the wolves because they believed in me. Seriously, they made huge changes to the…

> "financially innocent"

and "alcoholly irresponsible". I want to know do these loans also provide for booze or binge drinking that happens in college campuses.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#488
post #463
post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good idea from a job severity/ protectionist standpoint or from a “protect the craft and quality for the good of the public” sort of way?

Why not both? Even better if you have to obtain accreditation as a professional in every different market because EU software is different from US software is different from Indian software...

There are a lot of economists who make arguments against protectionist policies. A common refrain is that it leads to higher consumer prices.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#489
post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> beyond your first job. That's the twist though. If your first job is better, the second job is likely better too. It took me a decade before I made it to a first class job, sitting next to people who worked there straight out of college.

The best jobs themselves have a regional bias. That's why Baruch has Ivy level representation in IB and High Finance, and SJSU plus CalPoly SLO has Stanford level representation in the tech industry at large. Just looking at the Linkedins of the most successful EMs, PMs, and SEs in my network, most attended a normal state flagship and worked at an "OK" company like Oracle or Splunk. This whole "FAANG"-or-bust or "Ivy…

Yep all true. I didn't have a elite degree but also started in a bad region in a tech slowdown so that does explain a lot.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#490
post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well one of the reasons for outsourcing was the idea that becoming a service economy would improve our country and it's citizens... Unfortunately that turned out bust.

many citizens' lives were improved. The cheap material consumption and availability is an improvement. It's just that the benefit is so widely available that people stopped thinking of it as a benefit. It used to be that owning a TV or radio was an expense you planned for and it had to last. Of course there are those who were hurt from the move from blue collar manufacturing, but overall, the aggregated benefit is hi…

> It used to be that owning a TV or radio was an expense you planned for and it had to last.

Thereby replacing one problem with another. The hope was that quality would be minimally impacted and repairs would be affordable. Instead, businesses are incentivized to quick-to -obsolesce products.

Disastrous garbage problems that impact everyone, even the wealthiest, though they are blissfully unaware.

> Of course there are those who were hurt from the move from blue collar manufacturing, but overall, the aggregated benefit is higher than the losses from those who were laid off. And it's not as if new industries did not spring up.

Trump’s rise in 2016 shows that this narrative is woefully inadequate.

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