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How America's universities became debt factories

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Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#431

Post by dgoldstein0 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #349
fny wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition, you must complete a four year degree in whatever before going to medical school.

This is really a weird requirement and most other places in the world don't have it, without suffering any setbacks when it comes to outcomes of treatments. Imagine that every programmer would have to study, say, Latin for 4 years before being allowed to code.

Agreed. It might make some sense to require undergrad chemistry and biology for med school applicants but presumably that could be squeezed into 2 years of undergrad. Possibly a customized curriculum could teach it faster or as part of med school.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#432

Post by Dalewyn »

lenerdenator wrote: post #89

1) Move most good careers that do not require a college degree out of the country for the benefit of shareholders 2) Tell everyone born between 1980 and 1995 that they'll be unable to compete in the global marketplace if they don't get at least some post-high school education, and imply that the mere presence of a degree will help instead of having a specific type of degree 3) Have next-to-zero standards for public f…

>SCOTUS has said that the chief executive of the note-holding institution (in this case, the President of the United States) cannot use discretion in deciding who he gets to forgive for loans.

Yes, because the power of the purse rests solely with the House of Representatives.

Despite terms like "the President's budget", the White House has next to no authority in regards to what budget they get and how it will be spent. The legislature (House of Representatives) legislates and the executive (White House) executes; the executor cannot legislate.

This is why the often mentioned PPP loan forgiveness was fine (it was codified by the House) but Biden unilaterally deciding that certain debts to the government are forgiven is not.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#433

Post by carapace »

Aunche wrote: post #337
carapace wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would actually be worse if we accidentally built this machine to trap and drain a generation of their productive capacity? And of course there is a cabal of evil schemers, they have hardly bothered to hide themselves, e.g.: > Mudsill theory is the proposition that there must be, and always has been, a lower class or underclass for the upper classes and the rest of society to rest upon. > The theory was first artic…

This is barely relevant to college debt. If anything, it contradicts the parent comment because it would be the white collar middle class resting on the "mudsill" of cheap global labor. The Internet also underestimates how hard labor jobs are on your body. It would have been even worse during the golden age of American manufacturing, when there were 10 times as many work related deaths. When people imagine a world of…

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're saying.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#434

Post by WalterBright »

lenerdenator wrote: post #89

1) Move most good careers that do not require a college degree out of the country for the benefit of shareholders 2) Tell everyone born between 1980 and 1995 that they'll be unable to compete in the global marketplace if they don't get at least some post-high school education, and imply that the mere presence of a degree will help instead of having a specific type of degree 3) Have next-to-zero standards for public f…

> 4)

SCOTUS ruled that the President exceeded the authority over this that was authorized by Congress. I.e. it's Congress' purview to do this, not the Executive. The Executive does not get to make up laws.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#435

Post by WalterBright »

lenerdenator wrote: post #89

1) Move most good careers that do not require a college degree out of the country for the benefit of shareholders 2) Tell everyone born between 1980 and 1995 that they'll be unable to compete in the global marketplace if they don't get at least some post-high school education, and imply that the mere presence of a degree will help instead of having a specific type of degree 3) Have next-to-zero standards for public f…

> Move most good careers that do not require a college degree out of the country for the benefit of shareholders

The economic law of comparative advantage means that expenses go to where they are the cheapest.

The solution is not to punish companies, because if you do then the entire company moves out of the country.

The solution is to look at why foreign labor is cheaper, and what can be done to make domestic labor more competitive.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#436

Post by qwerpy »

lenerdenator wrote: post #89

1) Move most good careers that do not require a college degree out of the country for the benefit of shareholders 2) Tell everyone born between 1980 and 1995 that they'll be unable to compete in the global marketplace if they don't get at least some post-high school education, and imply that the mere presence of a degree will help instead of having a specific type of degree 3) Have next-to-zero standards for public f…

I'm glad that everyone is calling out that it is in fact a very good thing that the President is prohibited from arbitrarily deciding who to gift free college to. Loan forgiveness should rarely if ever be used. Too much opportunity for abuse by politicians who would love to dangle it as a carrot during election season.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#437

Post by WalterBright »

lenerdenator wrote: post #89

1) Move most good careers that do not require a college degree out of the country for the benefit of shareholders 2) Tell everyone born between 1980 and 1995 that they'll be unable to compete in the global marketplace if they don't get at least some post-high school education, and imply that the mere presence of a degree will help instead of having a specific type of degree 3) Have next-to-zero standards for public f…

> Hold these debtors to standards that aren't applied to other types of debtors. You cannot discharge them through bankruptcy

That's because other types of debts are backed up with collateral. 18 year olds have no collateral, and so can easily just declare bankruptcy - and what is the note holder gonna do about it?

That means the note holder needs some sort of guarantee to get paid back, otherwise they are simply not going to grant the loan.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#438

Post by rayiner »

lenerdenator wrote: post #89

1) Move most good careers that do not require a college degree out of the country for the benefit of shareholders 2) Tell everyone born between 1980 and 1995 that they'll be unable to compete in the global marketplace if they don't get at least some post-high school education, and imply that the mere presence of a degree will help instead of having a specific type of degree 3) Have next-to-zero standards for public f…

> Hold these debtors to standards that aren't applied to other types of debtors

That’s because these loans are made using standards that aren’t applied to other loans. The government basically does not consider credit risk or traditional underwriting standards when making student loans.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#439

Post by WalterBright »

scoofy wrote: post #110
lenerdenator wrote: post #89

1) Move most good careers that do not require a college degree out of the country for the benefit of shareholders 2) Tell everyone born between 1980 and 1995 that they'll be unable to compete in the global marketplace if they don't get at least some post-high school education, and imply that the mere presence of a degree will help instead of having a specific type of degree 3) Have next-to-zero standards for public f…

You forgot the most important part. The people agreeing to these debts, by definition , do not have an education in complex debt instruments that cannot be discharged. Taking our a vast loan to study English literature might seem unwise, but it’s something I could definitely see a starry eyed 17 year old deciding to do.

> complex debt instruments

They are not complicated. Compound interest is middle school arithmetic. Too bad the public schools are inept at teaching math.

I received a modest tuition loan when I went to college. There was no mystery about it. I made the payments after I graduated, and paid it off.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#440

Post by nothercastle »

WalterBright wrote: post #435
lenerdenator wrote: post #89

1) Move most good careers that do not require a college degree out of the country for the benefit of shareholders 2) Tell everyone born between 1980 and 1995 that they'll be unable to compete in the global marketplace if they don't get at least some post-high school education, and imply that the mere presence of a degree will help instead of having a specific type of degree 3) Have next-to-zero standards for public f…

> Move most good careers that do not require a college degree out of the country for the benefit of shareholders The economic law of comparative advantage means that expenses go to where they are the cheapest. The solution is not to punish companies, because if you do then the entire company moves out of the country. The solution is to look at why foreign labor is cheaper, and what can be done to make domestic labor…

Sure just allow slavery, unlimited pollution and no safety requirements or liability then the US would have no problem competing. Otherwise you have to regulate to create a level playing field
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