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How America's universities became debt factories

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Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#11

Post by mrfox321 »

WorkerBee28474 wrote: post #9
advael wrote: post #6

We should be way more willing to straight up kill multi-billion dollar industries. Without that willingness, most modern problems are impossible for governments to solve, and such industries and even their potential competitors are incentivised mostly to exacerbate the problem. I love a good market as much as anyone but there really are problems markets will never solve

That's too disruptive, and there's too high a chance of unintended consequences. Instead of that what you'll see is a 'we'll kill this multi-billion dollar industry over the course of the next 30 years'

China does this, for better or for worse.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#12

Post by advael »

I think it's really sad that we so reflexively consider universities vocational training that criticism of universities so often includes "offering degrees that won't get you a job"

Actually academia predates the push to gate jobs behind undergraduate degrees, and trying to repurpose these institutions that mainly exist to train and employ researchers to be fully general vocational schools has been a disaster in every respect for everyone but the parasitic class of administrators it's spawned

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#13

Post by andreyk »

Seems like a good overview, but I do find this bit unclear: "But why don’t market forces correct these issues?

The answer lies in the unique shield that non-dischargeable student loans provide to educational institutions and lenders.

In a normal market, if a product consistently fails to deliver value, consumers stop buying it. Producers either improve or go out of business. But in the world of higher education, this feedback loop is broken.

Colleges and universities, shielded by the guarantee of student loan money, have no real incentive to improve their product or direct students to majors that have an ability to pay back their loans.

They can raise tuition year after year, even as the value of their degrees stagnates or declines. "

Sure, colleges can charge a lot due to loans, but they are still competing with each other and differences in tuition could make a big difference. I went to Georgia Tech over other universities because it was in-state and Georgia has generous scholarships for students with good grades. So why does competition among schools not lower costs?

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#14

Post by wood_spirit »

pelagicAustral wrote: post #2

I was lucky enough to get a grant, 100% of cost, with two caveats, you have to finish, and once you finish you HAVE to work in the country for 2 years. Overall an amazing compromise for government.

Guessing from your username that this was Australia? Is this normal? And was this for specific courses and entry grades etc?

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#16

Post by oldpersonintx »

but it makes a nice opportunity for Democrats to buy votes later with selective debt forgiveness

debt forgiveness was a hot topic exactly one month before the midterms and it is already becoming a hot topic as we head in to the general election

if these students were not in debt, there would be no debt to forgive and no votes to buy

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#17

Post by alephnerd »

mrfox321 wrote: post #11
WorkerBee28474 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's too disruptive, and there's too high a chance of unintended consequences. Instead of that what you'll see is a 'we'll kill this multi-billion dollar industry over the course of the next 30 years'

China does this, for better or for worse.

Not really.

Entrenched and connected types tend to exit industries before the gavel hits, and enforcement from the CCDI isn't impartial, with plenty of bribery to remain off their radar.

Truly Schumpterian creative destruction is good in a vacuum, but reality isn't a vacuum.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#18

Post by advael »

WorkerBee28474 wrote: post #9
advael wrote: post #6

We should be way more willing to straight up kill multi-billion dollar industries. Without that willingness, most modern problems are impossible for governments to solve, and such industries and even their potential competitors are incentivised mostly to exacerbate the problem. I love a good market as much as anyone but there really are problems markets will never solve

That's too disruptive, and there's too high a chance of unintended consequences. Instead of that what you'll see is a 'we'll kill this multi-billion dollar industry over the course of the next 30 years'

With all due respect, fuck that. We do disruptive stuff with unintended consequences for millions of people as a matter of policy all the time, and the idea that it'll disrupt some finance goons' ponzi scheme does not bother me

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#19

Post by hiddencost »

advael wrote: post #12

I think it's really sad that we so reflexively consider universities vocational training that criticism of universities so often includes "offering degrees that won't get you a job" Actually academia predates the push to gate jobs behind undergraduate degrees, and trying to repurpose these institutions that mainly exist to train and employ researchers to be fully general vocational schools has been a disaster in ever…

At that time they were also incredibly exclusive and mostly the rich.
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