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Why are Europeans White?

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Re: Why are Europeans White?

#81
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, American natives are supposedly Russian in origin (?), and if they came from a group that had developed the paleness trait, it's feasible that in re-developing darker skin their bodies wouldn't come up with the exact same solution as the original Africans.

Native Americans are Mongoloid in decent, not Caucasian Russians.

Ah, there we go. Well, either way, Mongols are not black.

Re: Why are Europeans White?

#82
post #14

Nitpick: That heat ferried by the gulf stream is what warns the Baltic is a quasi-religious supposition from the father of oceanography. The thermal ballast of the Atlantic ocean that develops in the summer is primarily responsible for most of Europe's uncommonly warm winters.

Reading a little bit about the the recent work on the gulf stream and the effect on the climat shows that the interaction is probably much more complex than thought earlier. An interesting paper (PDF) on the subject is : Rhines, P.B.; Häkkinen, S. (September 2003). "Is the Oceanic Heat Transport in the North Atlantic Irrelevant to the Climate in Europe?". ASOF Newsletter. http://www.realclimate.org/Rhines_hakkinen_2003.pdf

Re: Why are Europeans White?

#83

I see that as daylight has reached my multi-ethnic neighborhood near the 45th parallel of north latitude in the middle of North America, this article about settlement patterns of Homo sapiens has received a lot of upvotes. I'll reply based on the more than fifty replies already posted, based on background reading I've done on the subject, and based on my "natural experiment" of living all over the United States (I ha…

> By the way, the "race" categories that are used in the United States are arbitrary, subject to rewriting from time to time for political considerations, and do not correspond to any scientific view of geographical populations. These categories are hardly arbitrary, they are political. We separate people into republicans and democrats, too, but just because this separation is not based on genetics or geography does…

I think his point was that race is often presented as a biological categorization, when in fact, biologically speaking, it is completely arbitrary, i.e. determined by factors completely independent of biology (specifically, politics, as you pointed out).

Re: Why are Europeans White?

#84

"Children around the world are often blonde, but their hair darkens at puberty. So it is not just northern European adult skin that lacks pigment. It is also adult European hair." The pictures posted by the author about child blondness look suspiciously like cases of malnutrition [1][2]. [1] http://www.lancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(... (search for "vitamin") [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_h…

Those pictures were probably from melanesia where blonde hair is native to the population (more striking in children)

Re: Why are Europeans White?

#85

I see that as daylight has reached my multi-ethnic neighborhood near the 45th parallel of north latitude in the middle of North America, this article about settlement patterns of Homo sapiens has received a lot of upvotes. I'll reply based on the more than fifty replies already posted, based on background reading I've done on the subject, and based on my "natural experiment" of living all over the United States (I ha…

By the way, the "race" categories that are used in the United States are arbitrary, subject to rewriting from time to time for political considerations, and do not correspond to any scientific view of geographical populations.

We never let science interfere with our prejudices; see for example the Supreme Court's reasoning in [1], in which they rejected a scientific definition of race for the purposes of interpreting a statute. However, we always did and still do assume that our beliefs about race (whatever they are) are grounded in biological reality and will be vindicated by science. In the Supreme Court case I linked, after the justices set aside science in favor of "the understanding of the common man," they still felt compelled to discuss scientific theories and imply that a sufficient examination of the scientific evidence would support the same ruling.

[1] http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/asian_voices/voices_display...

Re: Why are Europeans White?

#86
post #48

How does this explain blue grass? Is grass the same colour all over the World? Just a thought. Also white people look white as they reflect that light so there skin is the opposite, same for people who are black in that there skin is obsorbing the other light frequencies and so reflecting back not alot and as such appearing black. Now if you got all the populations and used transport like planes and mixed them all ab…

Why was this downvoted?

No idea, shortcommings in others eludes me as well.

Re: Why are Europeans White?

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peter Frost has been writing about this for years. He comes down on the side of the sexual selection theory, so if you're interested in that, check him out. http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2009/07/why-are-europeans-wh... http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2010/04/puzzle-of-european-h...

But he even contradicts himself in that post. He has an example of a modern experiment where people select brunettes over blondes because of rarity. So if european whiteness is a product of sexual selection of rare blondes, why didn't it swing the other way when the majority of the population were blonde? In some parts of Sweden and Finland, 85% of the adults are blonde, how could it ever go way above 50%? If the hyp…

Here's what I understand of Frost's opinions:

> if european whiteness is a product of sexual selection of rare blondes

It isn't. European whiteness (of skin) is a product of women being more heavily selected than men, since paleness of skin is a sex characteristic of females. (For example, african boys are born light, and darken over time. African girls are born light, darken until puberty, and then lighten.)

European variation in hair and eye color (but not skin color) is a color polymorphism typical of sexual selection. On this theory, 85% of adults sharing the identical hair color is unexpected.

-----

Here are some of my own thoughts on your question (I claim no qualification at all to pontificate here):

- What size are these "some parts of Sweden and Finland"? The smaller they are, the less interesting it is that they might appear uniform.

- Do 85% of adults share the identical hair color, or is variation being binned into the category "blonde"? Compare the internal variation of african or chinese hair color.

Re: Why are Europeans White?

#88

"Children around the world are often blonde, but their hair darkens at puberty. So it is not just northern European adult skin that lacks pigment. It is also adult European hair." The pictures posted by the author about child blondness look suspiciously like cases of malnutrition [1][2]. [1] http://www.lancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(... (search for "vitamin") [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_h…

Those pictures were probably from melanesia where blonde hair is native to the population (more striking in children)

I've never heard of that population before, it's quite an impressive thing to see [1]. On the other hand, the author's statement makes it sound like it's a common phenomenon around the world when it's not.

[1]https://www.google.com/search?q=melanesian+blonde&hl=en&...

Re: Why are Europeans White?

#89
post #48

How does this explain blue grass? Is grass the same colour all over the World? Just a thought. Also white people look white as they reflect that light so there skin is the opposite, same for people who are black in that there skin is obsorbing the other light frequencies and so reflecting back not alot and as such appearing black. Now if you got all the populations and used transport like planes and mixed them all ab…

Blue grass eh? What the hell? I have never heard of such a thing, and I suspect the people who downvoted you hadn't as well.

Also: >Why are Europeans White? Because none of them are Wong :-) and there not actualy white.

This is not the kind of serious scientific discussion expected here - you're supposed to be making some kind of point. You're not explaining anything by saying "they're not actually white".

Also, sadly, I think people downvoted you because of your grammar - you don't seem to be a native speaker, you're making some odd/un-intellectual mistakes.

Re: Why are Europeans White?

#90
post #26

Is it just me or do some Asians not seem nearly as white as caucasians? It seems especially Japanese can be fairly pale, I think its fairly subjective to say people of European ancestry are universally the most pale on earth.

Of course they do not. Malaysians for example are dark colored, as are Indonesians etc. Also Indians are far from pale.

Dialect quirk. In the United States "Asian" refers exclusively to East Asian people - Japanese, Chinese, Korean, etc, and does not include Indians, Pakistanis, Russians, or anyone else on the continent.

My understanding is that in British English "Asian" can include Indians and others from around there. I don't know if Russians are included, though.

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