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OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

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Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

#211

Post by sandspar »

mjburgess wrote: post #8
qsort wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Occam's razor: there is no secret sauce and they're afraid someone trains a model on the output like what happened soon after the release of GPT-4. They basically said as much in the official announcement, you hardly even have to read between the lines.

Yip. It's pretty obvious this 'innovation' is just based off training data collected from chain-of-thought prompting by people, ie., the 'big leap forward' is just another dataset of people repairing chatgpt's lack of reasoning capabilities. No wonder then, that many of the benchmarks they've tested on would be no doubt, in that very training dataset, repaired expertly by people running those benchmarks on chatgpt. T…

It's been out for 24 hours and you make an extremely confident and dismissive claim. If you had to make a dollar bet that you precisely understand what's happening under the hood, exactly how much money would you bet?

Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

#212

Post by sumedh »

mrinterweb wrote: post #40

The name "OpenAI" is a contraction since they don't seem "open" in any way. The only way I see "open" applying is "open for business."

I believe Sam has answered that question its open to public, anyone in the world can use ChatGpt for free so its "open"

Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

#213

Post by sumedh »

kevingadd wrote: post #208
RivieraKid wrote: post #199

Some of the comments here are ridiculous. Preventing others from stealing your technology, data and ideas is a key priority for a company. Are people expecting OpenAI to give away their innovations for free?

They got their training set for free, so it seems fair to me?

So who pays for all the datacenter costs?

Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

#214

Post by mritchie712 »

COAGULOPATH wrote: post #101
int_19h wrote: post #76

The best part is that you still get charged per token for those CoT tokens that you're not allowed to ask it about.

That's definitely weird, and I wonder how legal it is.

yes, I practice LLM Law and this is definitely illegal.

Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

#215

Post by lackoftactics »

m3kw9 wrote: post #122
qsort wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Occam's razor: there is no secret sauce and they're afraid someone trains a model on the output like what happened soon after the release of GPT-4. They basically said as much in the official announcement, you hardly even have to read between the lines.

Occam’s razor is overused and most times, wrongly, to explain everything. Maybe the simpler reason is because of what they explained.

Yep, I had a friend who overused it a lot. Like it was magic bullet for every problem. It’s not only about simple solution being better, it’s about not multiplying beings when that could be avoided.

In here if you already have an answer from their side, you are multiplying beings by going with conspiracy theory that they have nothing

Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

#216

Post by immibis »

tivert wrote: post #119
exe34 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i suspect they can detect that in a similar way to capchas and "verify you're human by clicking the box".

> i suspect they can detect that in a similar way to capchas and "verify you're human by clicking the box". I'm not so sure. IIRC, capchas are pretty much a solved problem, if you don't mind the cost of a little bit of human interaction (e.g. your interface pops up a captcha solver box when necessary, and is solved either by the bot's operator or some professional captcha-solver in a low-wage country).

there are services that solve captchas automatically with above-human success rates

Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

#217

Post by benreesman »

I spent like 24 hours in some self-doubt: have I mercilessly hounded Altman as a criminal on HN in error? Have I lobbied if not hassled if not harassed my former colleagues on the irredeemable moral bankruptcy of OpenAI right before they invent Star Trek? AITA?

Oh sweet summer child, no, it’s worse than you even thought. It’s exactly what you’ve learned over a decade to expect from those people. If they had the backing of the domestic surveillance apparatus.

Off with their fucking heads.

Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

#218

Post by immibis »

exe34 wrote: post #100
mjburgess wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yip. It's pretty obvious this 'innovation' is just based off training data collected from chain-of-thought prompting by people, ie., the 'big leap forward' is just another dataset of people repairing chatgpt's lack of reasoning capabilities. No wonder then, that many of the benchmarks they've tested on would be no doubt, in that very training dataset, repaired expertly by people running those benchmarks on chatgpt. T…

i think it's funny, every time you implement a clever solution to call gpt and get a decent answer, they get to use your idea in their product. what other project gets to crowdsource ideas and take credit for them like this? ps: actually maybe Amazon marketplace. probably others too.

Amazon definitely does this, to great effect.

Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

#219

Post by xnx »

qsort wrote: post #6
contravariant wrote: post #4

Okay this is just getting suspicious. Their excuses for keeping the chain of thought hidden are dubious at best [1], and honestly just seemed anti-competitive if anything. Worst is their argument that they want to monitor it for attempts to escape the prompt, but you can't. However the weirdest is that they note that: > for this to work the model must have freedom to express its thoughts in unaltered form, so we cann…

Occam's razor: there is no secret sauce and they're afraid someone trains a model on the output like what happened soon after the release of GPT-4. They basically said as much in the official announcement, you hardly even have to read between the lines.

3 GPT-4 in a trenchcoat

Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

#220

Post by astrange »

COAGULOPATH wrote: post #92
DiscourseFan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like the best AI models are increasingly just combinations of writings of various people thrown together. Like they hired a few hundred professors, journalists and writers to work with the model and create material for it, so you just get various combinations of their contributions. It's very telling that this model, for instance, is extraordinarily good at STEM related queries, but much worse (and worse eve…

>but much worse (and worse even in comparison to GPT4) than English composition O1 is supposed to be a reasoning model, so I don't think judging it by its English composition abilities is quite fair. When they release a true next-gen successor to GPT-4 (Orion, or whatever), we may see improvements. Everyone complains about the "ChatGPTese" writing style, and surely they'll fix that eventually. >Like they hired a few…

> When they release a true next-gen successor to GPT-4 (Orion, or whatever), we may see improvements. Everyone complains about the "ChatGPTese" writing style, and surely they'll fix that eventually.

IMO that has already peaked. GPT4 original certainly was terminally corny, but competitors like Claude/Llama aren't as bad, and neither is 4o. Some of the bad writing does from things they can't/don't want to solve - "harmlessness" RLHF especially makes them all cornier.

Then again, a lot of it is just that GPT4 speaks African English because it was trained by Kenyans and Nigerians. That's actually how they talk!

https://medium.com/@moyosoreale/the-paul-graham-vs-nigerian-...

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