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OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

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Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

#171

Post by egypturnash »

exe34 wrote: post #100
mjburgess wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yip. It's pretty obvious this 'innovation' is just based off training data collected from chain-of-thought prompting by people, ie., the 'big leap forward' is just another dataset of people repairing chatgpt's lack of reasoning capabilities. No wonder then, that many of the benchmarks they've tested on would be no doubt, in that very training dataset, repaired expertly by people running those benchmarks on chatgpt. T…

i think it's funny, every time you implement a clever solution to call gpt and get a decent answer, they get to use your idea in their product. what other project gets to crowdsource ideas and take credit for them like this? ps: actually maybe Amazon marketplace. probably others too.

"sherlocking" has been a thing since 2002, when Apple incorporated a bunch of third-party ideas for extending their "Sherlock" search tool into the official release. https://thehustle.co/sherlocking-explained

Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

#172

Post by kobalsky »

tptacek wrote: post #90
kobalsky wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can use chatgpt to learn about anything ... except how an ai like chatgpt work.

You can use Google to search about anything, except the precise details about how the Google search rankings work.

you can search about it all you want, google won't threaten to ban you.

and google gives everyone the possibility of being excluded in their results.

Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

#173

Post by tptacek »

kobalsky wrote: post #172
tptacek wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use Google to search about anything, except the precise details about how the Google search rankings work.

you can search about it all you want, google won't threaten to ban you. and google gives everyone the possibility of being excluded in their results.

There's all sorts of things you can do to get banned from Google apps! This is not a real issue. It just recapitulates everyone's preexisting takes on OpenAI.

Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

#174

Post by colejohnson66 »

echelon wrote: post #93
DiscourseFan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like the best AI models are increasingly just combinations of writings of various people thrown together. Like they hired a few hundred professors, journalists and writers to work with the model and create material for it, so you just get various combinations of their contributions. It's very telling that this model, for instance, is extraordinarily good at STEM related queries, but much worse (and worse eve…

Wizard of Oz. There is no magic, it's all smoke and mirrors. The models and prompts are all monkey-patched and this isn't a step towards general superintelligence. Just hacks. And once you realize that, you realize that there is no moat for the existing product. Throw some researchers and GPUs together and you too can have the same system. It wouldn't be so bad for ClopenAI if every company under the sun wasn't also…

Quite a few times, the secret sauce for a company is just having enough capital to make it unviable for people to not use you. Then, by the time everyone catches up, you’ve outspent them on the next generation. OpenAI, for example, has spent untold millions on chips/cards from Nvidia. Open models keep catching up, but OpenAI keeps releasing newer stuff.

Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

#175

Post by wslh »

GaggiX wrote: post #47
DiscourseFan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like the best AI models are increasingly just combinations of writings of various people thrown together. Like they hired a few hundred professors, journalists and writers to work with the model and create material for it, so you just get various combinations of their contributions. It's very telling that this model, for instance, is extraordinarily good at STEM related queries, but much worse (and worse eve…

Do you have a source about OpenAI hiring a few hundred professors, journalists and writers? Because I honestly doubt.

In our company we received a linguistic that worked on OpenAI and he was not alone.

Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

#177

Post by sjfgkH »

contravariant wrote: post #4

Okay this is just getting suspicious. Their excuses for keeping the chain of thought hidden are dubious at best [1], and honestly just seemed anti-competitive if anything. Worst is their argument that they want to monitor it for attempts to escape the prompt, but you can't. However the weirdest is that they note that: > for this to work the model must have freedom to express its thoughts in unaltered form, so we cann…

[flagged]

Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

#178

Post by janalsncm »

mjburgess wrote: post #8
qsort wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Occam's razor: there is no secret sauce and they're afraid someone trains a model on the output like what happened soon after the release of GPT-4. They basically said as much in the official announcement, you hardly even have to read between the lines.

Yip. It's pretty obvious this 'innovation' is just based off training data collected from chain-of-thought prompting by people, ie., the 'big leap forward' is just another dataset of people repairing chatgpt's lack of reasoning capabilities. No wonder then, that many of the benchmarks they've tested on would be no doubt, in that very training dataset, repaired expertly by people running those benchmarks on chatgpt. T…

Do people really expect anything different? There is a ton of cross-pollination in Silicon Valley. Keeping these innovations completely under wraps would be akin to a massive conspiracy. A peacetime Manhattan Project where everyone has a smartphone, a Twitter presence, and sleeps in their own bed.

Frankly I am even skeptical of US-China separation at the moment. If Chinese scientists at e.g. Huawei somehow came up with the secret sauce to AGI tomorrow, no research group is so far behind that they couldn’t catch up pretty quickly. We saw this with ChatGPT/Claude/Gemini before, none of which are light years ahead of another. Of course this could change in the future.

This is actually among the best case scenarios for research. It means that a preemptive strike on data centers is still off the table for now. (Sorry Eleazar)

Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

#179

Post by pixelbro »

n42 wrote: post #83
tptacek wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what sense is not giving your competitors ammunition "anti-competitive"? That seems pretty competitive to me. More to the point: it's almost universally how competition in our economy actually works.

I think maybe we're just disagreeing on a legal interpretation vs a more literal interpretation of a term that is thrown around somewhat loosely. fwiw I agree with what you're getting at with your original response. maybe I'm arguing semantics. the more I think about your point that this is just competitive behavior the more I question what the term anti-competive even means

Competition is important for maintaining a healthy marketplace. Any behavior that makes it harder for others to compete, reducing the amount of competition, is therefore bad. That's what anticompetitive means.

I don't think protecting trade secrets is sabotaging the competition though.

Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought

#180

Post by edwinarbus »

int_19h wrote: post #76

The best part is that you still get charged per token for those CoT tokens that you're not allowed to ask it about.

Edwin from OpenAI here. 1) The linked tweet shows behavior through ChatGPT, not the OpenAI API, so you won't be charged for any tokens. 2) For the overall flow and email notification, we're taking a second look here.
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