The best part is that you still get charged per token for those CoT tokens that you're not allowed to ask it about.
That's definitely weird, and I wonder how legal it is.
OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought
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Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought
#102The o1 model already pretty much explains exactly how it runs the chain of thought though? Unless there is some special system instruction that you've specifically fine tuned for?
You are not seeing the actual CoT, but rather an LLM-generated summary of it (and you don't know how accurate said summary is).
Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yip. It's pretty obvious this 'innovation' is just based off training data collected from chain-of-thought prompting by people, ie., the 'big leap forward' is just another dataset of people repairing chatgpt's lack of reasoning capabilities. No wonder then, that many of the benchmarks they've tested on would be no doubt, in that very training dataset, repaired expertly by people running those benchmarks on chatgpt. T…
> Yip. It's pretty obvious this 'innovation' is just based off training data collected from chain-of-thought prompting by people, ie., the 'big leap forward' is just another dataset of people repairing chatgpt's lack of reasoning capabilities. Which would be ChatGPT chat logs, correct? It would be interesting if people started feeding ChatGPT deliberately bad repairs due it's "lack of reasoning capabilities" (e.g. ge…
i suspect they can detect that in a similar way to capchas and "verify you're human by clicking the box".
Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
No it is not just search. Chain of thought is the generation of new context from the inputs combined with a divide and conquer strategy. The model does not really searches it just breaks the problem in smaller chunks.
I don't get the distinction. Are you not just searching through chunks?
CoT is literally just telling an LLM to "reason through it step by step", so that it talks itself through the solution instead of just giving the final answer. There's no searching involved in any of that.
Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought
#105The name "OpenAI" is a contraction since they don't seem "open" in any way. The only way I see "open" applying is "open for business."
I went to Burger King and there was no royalty working there at all!
How can you be so sure? I've seen a documentary that detailed the experiences of a prince from abroad working in fast food after being sent to the US to get some life experience before getting married. Maybe it's more common than you think.
Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought
#106Yes. This is the consolidation/monopoly attack vector that makes OpenAI anything but. They're the MSFT of the AI era. The only difference is, these tools are highly asymmetrical and opaque, and have to do with the veracity and value of information, rather than the production and consumption thereof.
Too bad for them that they're actively failing at keeping their moat. They're consistently ahead by barely a few months, not enough to hold a moat. They also can't trap customers as chatbots are literally the easiest tech to transition to different suppliers if needed.
Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought
#107Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought
#108ClosedAI
Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought
#109The words "internal thought process" seem to flag my questions. Just asking for an explanation of thoughts doesn't. If I ask for an explanation of "internal feelings" next to a math questions, I get this interesting snippet back inside of the "Thought for n seconds" block: > Identifying and solving > I’m mapping out the real roots of the quadratic polynomial 6x^2 + 5x + 1, ensuring it’s factorized into irreducible el…
They figured out how to make it completely useless I guess. I was disappointed but not surprised when they said they weren't going to show us chain of thought. I assumed we'd still be able to ask clarifying questions but apparently they forgot that's how people learn. Or they know and they would rather we just turn to them for our every thought instead of learning on our own.
Yeah, that is a worry: maybe OpenAI's business model and valuation rest on reasoning abilities becoming outdated and atrophying outside of their algorithmic black box, a trade secret we don't have access too. It struck me as an obvious possible concern when the o1 announcement released, but too speculative and conspiratorial to point out - but how hard they're apparently trying to stop it from explaining its reasoning in ways that humans can understand is alarming.
Re: OpenAI threatens to revoke o1 access for asking it about its chain of thought
#110How do they recognise someone is asking the naughty questions? What qualifies as naughty? And is banning people for asking naughty questions seriously their idea of safeguarding against naughty queries?
The model will often recognise a request is part of whatever ${naughty_list} it was trained on and generate a refusal response. Banning seems more aimed at preventing working around this by throwing massive volume at it to see what eventually slips through, as requiring a new payment account integration puts a "significantly better than doing nothing" hamper on that type of exploiting. I.e. their goal isn't to have a…
I think once a small corpus of examples of CoT gets around, people will be able to reverse-engineer it.