9 bars of DIY pressure scares me.
DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine
211–220 of 292 posts
Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I am also curious to see coffees on both done by professional barista, blind tasting and the results. edit: found something, but unfortunately, not the same barista and only two tasters. Plus decorations on milk gave a hint who made what... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9YhsDPz2I0
But this is a wrong metric to use! _Can_ you get the same coffee out of 250E machine as from a 20kE one? Probably! Will it take the same amount of work? Will it be as repeatable as the more expensive one? Will you need to temperature surf? How many wasted shots does it take me to dial in? Can you steam milk at the same time as pulling a shot? Can you do a ~19g dose? If "taste under best possible conditiosn" is your _…
So we agree on most important factor. You can get a great espresso from 5 times cheaper machine. This is what I was claiming. Price / performance, not worthy.
I mean, audiophiles are also buying audiophile routers (digital technology is irrelevant here) and audiophile stones ( https://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/201... ).
There always needs to be someone that overpays things or we would have those 1250 euro machines for 250 euros when market instead of hype would start working.
Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine
#213The more I think about the more I feel that this is the wrong solution to the problem. Disclaimer: I'm doing a small open source espresso controller project, check it out if you're interested, but it's not ready for prime time yet: https://github.com/variegated-coffee . My thinking is that this machine appeals mostly to people who already has an espresso machine. It's not particularly technologically advanced. It's a…
I only see power requirements (1300 W) but no mention of voltage or frequency requirements---not even in the user guide. The pricing in € hints that the creators are in 240/1/50-land, and that I'm out-of-luck in the 120/1/60 wastes of North America. It's a shame, because I'm very much the target demographic for a kit like this. One could transform it from 120 V or run it on our 240 V split-phase with an isolation transformer of course, but running the A/C pump 20% faster might be dubious.
As an aside, I'm frustrated for the same reason regarding induction cooktops. European units are a fraction of the cost of their American equivalents.
Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine
#214I am the “self-upgrade my hardware” type. If there’s one piece of advice I didn’t listen to it’s “just buy the nicer machine” for espresso. While it’s fun that I got to upgrade the parts and make it better. It also cost me just as much money. The tinker aspect only involves a few simple upgrades on my Gaggia Classic Pro. But what I didn’t realize is that espresso machines, much like other consumer hobbies was already…
>While it’s fun that I got to upgrade the parts and make it better. It also cost me just as much money.
Reminds me of the 3D printing hobby, you can buy a cheap printer and spend all your time and money tinkering to make it better, or you can just spend a little more upfront and spend your time printing instead of tinkering.
The espresso folks that like tinkering forget that sometimes someone just wants to have one to drink and then get about their day.
>At some point if I continue investing, I would not be saving money from buying a $3 cup of coffee from the cafe and the awkward barista waiting for me to tap the tip screen.
It'd be interesting if all of these projects online included an ROI statement at the end. I suspect most of them take years to pay off, if at all, if you ignore the entertainment value of tinkering.
Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pareto principle. I bought a Gaggia but didn't do all of the extra stuff you mentioned, because I simply don't care enough for marginal returns. That's why a moka pot, which I had before, would still not be a good enough successor, because getting just the Gaggia is enough for most people who want to make espresso, the optimizations you talk about, while I have heard of all of them, are pretty much unnecessary if you…
The advice though on the market is that if you want a good cup of coffee you need to do more than buy the machine. I agree that the gains are marginal. With a PC, I can upgrade my ram and the gains might be marginal, but I still have a world of free stuff I can install and tinker on it. Once the espresso machine is built/upgraded then that’s it really. You can only buy more things for it. There is no exploratory afte…
> I don’t agree that a moka pot wouldn’t be enough
Sure, but a moka pot is not espresso, by the definition of espresso. It is like espresso, sure, but it does not achieve the required pressures to, well, press (hence, espresso) the water through the coffee. That is why I stopped using moka pots.
> The advice though on the market is that if you want a good cup of coffee you need to do more than buy the machine
That may just be your opinion because I honestly don't see any reason to spend more than necessary on espresso, as BugsJustFindMe says.
In short, I want espresso, but I do not want anything past that point, because the gains are marginal.
Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't disagree that a moka pot and espresso are completely different processes, I'm saying that a 250 EUR espresso machine is not going to be capable of making actual espresso (barring stuff like Flair that takes away components to make it work).
But the facts are showing something else: https://www.delonghi.com/en-gb/products/coffee/manual-espres... Just head to technical data and feel free to explain which parameter is wrong. Take the cheapest one, 213 euros. Is is 15 (12) bar of pressure? Some other type of heater, as 1300 Watts of input power is not enough? Seriously, I don't understand what the limiting factor is? Not expensive enough? I even tried to fi…
Lack of temperature control is a minus, as that means that there will be some blends that won't taste good, these days most fancy machines have a pid (and if yours doesn't you should install it, or you are missing out).
Kind of related, lack of boiler at 1.5 atm means non-great milk foaming capabilities.
Also, you buy a good 1500$ machine, your grandchildren will be able to inherit it if you take care of it. That delhongi won't last two days further than the minimum required by guarantee.
Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
Man I’d love to get this semi-affordably in Europe. Such a cool product. I use a Cafelat Robot for my morning brew and it’s consistently the highlight of my day. Manual espresso rules
I don't really see the advantage compared to your Cafelat Robot, or a Flair.
Espresso forge has even fewer moving parts, and no rotating bearing surfaces or arms that can snap. The moving part is a stainless steel rod with two EPDM o-rings on the moving surface. It will last several centuries given a supply of o-rings. The basket mating surface has a silicone gasket which lasts forever if you store the device in pieces after cleaning up the coffee grounds.
Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's also at least as expensive as more advanced machines you can buy already-assembled. Exactly. The parent post mentions this being "the wrong solution to the problem", but I don't know what the problem is this product is addressing. E61 machines are well understood and diagrammed with (somewhat) interchangeable parts. If this product appeals to you, you can buy a cheaper/similarly priced machine, take it apart and…
Oh, don't get me started on what the problem is :D * Espresso machine electronics are very proprietary. There's basically one manufacturer, no published schematics and very closed firmwares. * That one manufacturer's hardware occasionally breaks and needs replacement, and they charge up the wazoo for it. * Firmware updates is not a thing. Buying a new controller with the new firmware is your only option. * Espresso m…
> * Espresso machine electronics hardware is pretty firmly stuck in the past. If you're lucky you have a 128x64 px OLED, but more likely you have LED indicators, 7 segment displays, or graphical LCDs.
I don't know if I'd consider adding a screen to an espresso machine to be an improvement. What would it be useful for?
Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine
#219You can get a similar machine (Quick Mill Carola) for the same price, assembled. To scratch the hacker itch, you can get a much cheaper machine (Gaggia Classic Pro, Rancillio Silvia) and install a PID (a computer to control most of the brewing parameters). I understand the appeal to "hackers", but if you just want coffee, there are more, proven reliable, less expensive, options.
I have a quick mill QM67 from 2012...well past 10000 shots in that time and about 5 hours of "On time" per day. since I got it I hacked in a direct plumbing line with a solenoid, and have killed one $29 pump.
However, it is probably now in need of a teardown. the brew pressure bypass valve is seized, and there is some scaling/corrosion in the brew head. I've got a machine shop, so I'm tempted to tear the whole thing apart, rewire, and replace the core electronics, but I'm not sure exactly what to do.
Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine
#220I’m not a really avid espresso person but IMO any decent espresso machine could do the job, the real deal is the coffee grinder. Invest in the highly precision grinder could up scale your espresso shots without an expressive coffee machine.
A DIY grinder project might be interesting, but I'm not sure if there are reliable sources for burrs and those would be pretty difficult to make.