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DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

diypresso.com

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Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#201

Post by nabilhat »

ManDeJan wrote: post #116

A neat project for sure but as it stands this has major safety issues. The control logic is able to lock up and keep the boilers heating element in an forever "on" state till something snaps. I couldn't find a mention of safety in the manual nor see any mechanical safety failsafes in case of overheating.

A thermal fuse isn't for overpressure control, it's intended to trip before a physical overpressure control vents superheated steam. Both provide failover redundancy independent of operational heater controls.

There isn't enough detail of the boiler to tell if there's an overpressure relief valve. The boiler can't be made safe without one. If they're cheap enough to be standard in cheap knockoff moka pots one should be here...

This machine's wiring diagram shows an unlabelled shape wired in series with what might possibly be the heating element and a shape with "ssr" in its label. Which places the first unlabelled shape in the right place to be a thermal fuse or switch. If they're cheap enough to be standard in Mr Coffee machines one should be here...

Safety discussion in this project is conspicuously absent. Knowledgable users shouldn't be making assumptions like this about safety features. Assumptions and safety aren't compatible. Average users should be informed in detail about the safety features they're tasked with assembling.

Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#202

Post by Thrymr »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #188
righthand wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advice though on the market is that if you want a good cup of coffee you need to do more than buy the machine. I agree that the gains are marginal. With a PC, I can upgrade my ram and the gains might be marginal, but I still have a world of free stuff I can install and tinker on it. Once the espresso machine is built/upgraded then that’s it really. You can only buy more things for it. There is no exploratory afte…

> The advice though on the market is that if you want a good cup of coffee you need to do more than buy the machine. The advice from anyone trying to sell you fancy tools and from anyone trying to justify to themselves that they bought fancy tools will always be that you need to buy fancy tools in order to enjoy the product. It is, of course, an obvious fabrication to anyone not inside this loop, and a form of cruelt…

> And a moka costs $20 and lasts through a nuclear war.

Good luck finding quality coffee beans after the war, unless your bunker has a coffee plantation attached.

Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#203

Post by 0x457 »

dfxm12 wrote: post #158
zero_iq wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also at least as expensive as more advanced machines you can buy already-assembled. If this was half the price, I might be interested. But if I wanted a coffee maker with open source control, I'd probably just hack an existing cheaper product. And I'm someone who absolutely loves assembling stuff from kits! Heck, I'd be surprised if someone hasn't already got Doom running on a Sage.

It's also at least as expensive as more advanced machines you can buy already-assembled. Exactly. The parent post mentions this being "the wrong solution to the problem", but I don't know what the problem is this product is addressing. E61 machines are well understood and diagrammed with (somewhat) interchangeable parts. If this product appeals to you, you can buy a cheaper/similarly priced machine, take it apart and…

This is like building your own keyboards. It's for people that like putting things together.

I've ordered DIY framework laptop not because it was cheaper, but because it was fun to build it.

Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#204

Post by dfxm12 »

drrotmos wrote: post #163
dfxm12 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also at least as expensive as more advanced machines you can buy already-assembled. Exactly. The parent post mentions this being "the wrong solution to the problem", but I don't know what the problem is this product is addressing. E61 machines are well understood and diagrammed with (somewhat) interchangeable parts. If this product appeals to you, you can buy a cheaper/similarly priced machine, take it apart and…

Oh, don't get me started on what the problem is :D * Espresso machine electronics are very proprietary. There's basically one manufacturer, no published schematics and very closed firmwares. * That one manufacturer's hardware occasionally breaks and needs replacement, and they charge up the wazoo for it. * Firmware updates is not a thing. Buying a new controller with the new firmware is your only option. * Espresso m…

I don't think any of these issues are solved by selling you a pile of parts and having you build the machine yourself. An open/more flexible PID is a great idea, but that's just one piece of this product & could be built into an already assembled machine. There are some machines (Decent, Sam Remo You) that give you a lot more control, but even this level of control probably goes unused by a lot of its users if the h-b forums are to be believed.

More control than that, or a totally open PID, might be a hard sell for safety reasons. That alone is a nonstarter, but even as you approach that level of openness, it would be pretty hard to support and really isn't needed if you just want a good shot of espresso and aren't taking an niche academic approach to an already niche process. This is why you likely won't see it in more commercial machines.

Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#205

Post by wkat4242 »

morsch wrote: post #92
wkat4242 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced on autogrinders. One of my friends had one (A Jura) of 1000+ euro and the coffee was no better. Eventually the grinder crapped out and the replacement cost 3/4 of the machine price. He's now drinking Nespresso like me :) Breville doesn't seem to be a common brand here in Europe but I see it is a lot cheaper. Nothing like the 80 euro of a Nespresso machine though (which has also lasted me 10 years de…

You can get a De'Longhi Magnifica S super automatic for ~260 EUR on sale. Quite reliable. More convenient than an a Nespresso. Cheaper to operate. Less waste.

I don't know if it's really as convenient though.

What I tend to do is drink "half-caf", I take 1 pod decaf and 1 pod normal in the same cup. It looks like for this one I'd have to change out the bean reservoir every time (or mix normal beans with decaf beans somehow).

It would probably be cheaper though yeah. Even the aftermarket cups still cost me 25c. I'll have more of a look at it once my current machine fails (it's going on 10 years now).

Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#206

Post by dfxm12 »

0x457 wrote: post #203
dfxm12 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also at least as expensive as more advanced machines you can buy already-assembled. Exactly. The parent post mentions this being "the wrong solution to the problem", but I don't know what the problem is this product is addressing. E61 machines are well understood and diagrammed with (somewhat) interchangeable parts. If this product appeals to you, you can buy a cheaper/similarly priced machine, take it apart and…

This is like building your own keyboards. It's for people that like putting things together. I've ordered DIY framework laptop not because it was cheaper, but because it was fun to build it.

The last sentence of my post addresses this.

Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#207

Post by [deleted] »

drrotmos wrote: post #145

The more I think about the more I feel that this is the wrong solution to the problem. Disclaimer: I'm doing a small open source espresso controller project, check it out if you're interested, but it's not ready for prime time yet: https://github.com/variegated-coffee . My thinking is that this machine appeals mostly to people who already has an espresso machine. It's not particularly technologically advanced. It's a…

[deleted]

Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#208

Post by michaelt »

ManDeJan wrote: post #116

A neat project for sure but as it stands this has major safety issues. The control logic is able to lock up and keep the boilers heating element in an forever "on" state till something snaps. I couldn't find a mention of safety in the manual nor see any mechanical safety failsafes in case of overheating.

> I couldn't [...] see any mechanical safety failsafes in case of overheating.

On the assembly instructions, page 39 shows the boiler assembly has a therm-o-disc thermostat fixed to the top. It's not labelled, you just have to recognise it. The schematic on page 44 shows it's wired in series with the boiler's heater. That provides redundancy for the main temperature control, which is presumably the microcontroller sensing from the PT1000

Page 32 also describes the installation of an overpressure valve (which appears to return water to the cold tank?)

The machine does lack hardware run-dry protection though; as far as I can tell, it relies on a load cell to detect if there's water in the tank. If you ran it without water to conduct heat from the heating element to the thermostat, the thermostat wouldn't function. So it's not entirely safe, as you say.

[1] https://diypresso.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/2024-05-27-...

Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#209

Post by everybodyknows »

bee_rider wrote: post #31

Sadly the website was knocked out by HN, I guess. Anyway, I really like my Flair. It is fun to press the thing manually. And it is nice to have espresso still during a power outage (as long as I can get ground beans and fire). I think this is a different definition of “do it yourself” though, hahaha.

I have a Flair. Poking a temperature probe into the emerging stream revealed that a finely choreographed preheat ritual is necessary to get even close to the usual recommended 200F.

Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#210

Post by ip26 »

satvikpendem wrote: post #177
righthand wrote: post #167

I am the “self-upgrade my hardware” type. If there’s one piece of advice I didn’t listen to it’s “just buy the nicer machine” for espresso. While it’s fun that I got to upgrade the parts and make it better. It also cost me just as much money. The tinker aspect only involves a few simple upgrades on my Gaggia Classic Pro. But what I didn’t realize is that espresso machines, much like other consumer hobbies was already…

Pareto principle. I bought a Gaggia but didn't do all of the extra stuff you mentioned, because I simply don't care enough for marginal returns. That's why a moka pot, which I had before, would still not be a good enough successor, because getting just the Gaggia is enough for most people who want to make espresso, the optimizations you talk about, while I have heard of all of them, are pretty much unnecessary if you…

Espresso is a weird animal. In my experience, there’s basically “good espresso” and “bad espresso”. The fancy equipment mostly helps you make the good kind more frequently.

Experts can critique your cup, but hitting the sweet spot of “good” feels more like 97% of the output. If anything, the Pareto principle applies instead to the frequency of “good” extraction.

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