The irony is that Francesca Gino and Dan Ariely are famous for their pop-sci/TED talks studying dishonesty. Turns out they were dishonest themselves.
https://www.npr.org/2023/07/27/1190568472/dan-ariely-frances...
Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation
31–40 of 123 posts
Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, that’s why the ruling is good for science. It would be a dark world if publishing statistical analysis opened you up to defamation
In the uk at least truth is not defense againts defamation. Beware if you live there.
This is ironically, not true.
“It is a defence for defamation to show the imputation in the statement complained of is substantially true.”
Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the uk at least truth is not defense againts defamation. Beware if you live there.
My understanding is it is a little more nuanced than that. The truth is still an absolute defense against defamation in the UK, just like it is in the US, but the difference is who the burden of proof is on. In the US, it is up to the person suing for defamation to prove the statements were false AND that the person knew them to be false when they said them (or should have known they were false). In the UK, for someo…
In both bases proof is only on balance of evidence, so the difference between proving something is or isn’t true is not as great as it would be if the standard was proof beyond reasonable doubt.
Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation
#34“[s]cientific controversies must be settled by the methods of science rather than by the methods of litigation” Boom. And the researchers didn't accuse a person of fabrication, they accused the data of being fabricated.
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Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
My understanding is it is a little more nuanced than that. The truth is still an absolute defense against defamation in the UK, just like it is in the US, but the difference is who the burden of proof is on. In the US, it is up to the person suing for defamation to prove the statements were false AND that the person knew them to be false when they said them (or should have known they were false). In the UK, for someo…
In both bases proof is only on balance of evidence, so the difference between proving something is or isn’t true is not as great as it would be if the standard was proof beyond reasonable doubt.
It’s a lot easier to prove that there is a white swan than a black swan in the world somewhere.
Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation
#36While a favorable ruling for the Data Colada defendants seemed incredibly likely in the end (and of course being dismissed pre-trial before discovery is a good thing). But it still took over a year, and consisted of several pre-trial hearings with multiple back and forths between them. If I ctrl-f https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.259... I see Pyle (their lawyer) listed 11 times. All the motion…
You are underestimating...
Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the uk at least truth is not defense againts defamation. Beware if you live there.
My own post here [0] got suddenly multiply downvoted and flagged, even though I wrote it very carefully and double-checked every single statement. Truth defense. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41526702
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Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation
#38While a favorable ruling for the Data Colada defendants seemed incredibly likely in the end (and of course being dismissed pre-trial before discovery is a good thing). But it still took over a year, and consisted of several pre-trial hearings with multiple back and forths between them. If I ctrl-f https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.259... I see Pyle (their lawyer) listed 11 times. All the motion…
I'm pretty sure this guy wouldn't get out of bed for $10k: https://princelobel.com/professional/jeffrey-j-pyle/ Although given that the New Yorker stated that Pyle "appeared not only professionally but personally incensed by the fact of the lawsuit", perhaps some of the work was pro bono. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-a-scientific-di...
I don't know him or this case, but lawyers tend to often feel that way about the cases they are representing. I wouldn't think that means he's not billing.
Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation
#39The irony is that Francesca Gino and Dan Ariely are famous for their pop-sci/TED talks studying dishonesty. Turns out they were dishonest themselves. https://www.npr.org/2023/07/27/1190568472/dan-ariely-frances...
I'm at the point where if I see it in a TED talk I'm assuming it's a bullshit grifter
Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation
#40While a favorable ruling for the Data Colada defendants seemed incredibly likely in the end (and of course being dismissed pre-trial before discovery is a good thing). But it still took over a year, and consisted of several pre-trial hearings with multiple back and forths between them. If I ctrl-f https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.259... I see Pyle (their lawyer) listed 11 times. All the motion…
You are underestimating...
I would agree. I'm the defendant in a (frivolous) trademark infringement case and my firm (which does work for the EFF) averages about 2 hours per (substantial) page, at a rate of $500/hour. I do wonder in the back of my mind if I'm being taken to the cleaners...