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Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

arstechnica.com

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Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

#21

Post by exegete »

komali2 wrote: post #11
teekert wrote: post #4

“… the court has ruled that evidence-backed conclusions regarding fabricated data cannot constitute defamation—which is probably a very good thing for science.” “Probably good for science”? That is science!

It also cited a precedent I didn't know existed for the courts: > The court cites precedent to note that “[s]cientific controversies must be settled by the methods of science rather than by the methods of litigation” I wonder if this a specific case or just a general precedent? Is general precedent a thing?

I saw that quote in the article but cannot find it in the ruling itself: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.259...

It seems to be a quote from a London court ruling in 2010: https://www.bmj.com/content/340/bmj.c1895

Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

#22

Post by pclmulqdq »

teractiveodular wrote: post #17
apwheele wrote: post #13

While a favorable ruling for the Data Colada defendants seemed incredibly likely in the end (and of course being dismissed pre-trial before discovery is a good thing). But it still took over a year, and consisted of several pre-trial hearings with multiple back and forths between them. If I ctrl-f https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.259... I see Pyle (their lawyer) listed 11 times. All the motion…

I'm pretty sure this guy wouldn't get out of bed for $10k: https://princelobel.com/professional/jeffrey-j-pyle/ Although given that the New Yorker stated that Pyle "appeared not only professionally but personally incensed by the fact of the lawsuit", perhaps some of the work was pro bono. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-a-scientific-di...

Thankfully, a lot of the filings appear short enough that I doubt he's going to charge very much. I assume the retainer was still $20-30k, but they may get some of it back.

I was hoping that there would be some fee-shifting here, but it's federal court.

Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

#23

Post by rudyfink »

apwheele wrote: post #13

While a favorable ruling for the Data Colada defendants seemed incredibly likely in the end (and of course being dismissed pre-trial before discovery is a good thing). But it still took over a year, and consisted of several pre-trial hearings with multiple back and forths between them. If I ctrl-f https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.259... I see Pyle (their lawyer) listed 11 times. All the motion…

You are probably not overestimating.

Generally, I would guess conferring with the client on the facts, briefing, preparing for a hearing, and arguing a hearing would be north of, at least, 25k, assuming a lower-end rate estimate in the $800+ range and a lower-end work estimate of 30+ hours. If I had to bet, I'd go higher than the low-end estimate: both the rate and hours could be close to double. That said, the attorney / firm could be donating the time on this one.

Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

#24

Post by [deleted] »

smcin wrote: post #6

[tl;dr] US District Court dismisses Francesca Gino's controversial $25m defamation lawsuit against Harvard Business School and DataColada scientist-bloggers (Simonsohn, Nelson, and Simmons). The judge allowed Gino's breach of contract claim against Harvard to continue. DataColada's legal defense (so far) was paid for by their own universities; there is also a $378K private GoFundMe organized by Simine Vazire [ https:…

[deleted]

Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

#25

Post by smcin »

bluGill wrote: post #14
kortilla wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that’s why the ruling is good for science. It would be a dark world if publishing statistical analysis opened you up to defamation

In the uk at least truth is not defense againts defamation. Beware if you live there.

My own post here [0] got suddenly multiply downvoted and flagged, even though I wrote it very carefully and double-checked every single statement. Truth defense.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41526702

Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

#26

Post by dotnet00 »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #12
smcin wrote: post #6

[tl;dr] US District Court dismisses Francesca Gino's controversial $25m defamation lawsuit against Harvard Business School and DataColada scientist-bloggers (Simonsohn, Nelson, and Simmons). The judge allowed Gino's breach of contract claim against Harvard to continue. DataColada's legal defense (so far) was paid for by their own universities; there is also a $378K private GoFundMe organized by Simine Vazire [ https:…

Do universities typically go to bat for their faculty? Presumably the blog investigation is not done with any direct university involvement.

The universities might've deemed it to be an important enough PR situation and low risk enough to do it.

Alternatively maybe they were obligated to back them up if the work was done in their official capacity as faculty?

Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

#27

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

taeric wrote: post #8

This whole ordeal has been crazy. Glad to see some sanity prevailing at this level. Curious where the rest of the story is at. Anyone have a good primer on where things ultimately are, at this point? Curious on more than just this case. If I recall, there were several large scale misconduct cases that hit back to back. All of those still in flight?

I'd love to hear more about the outcome for harvard.

it seems that they mostly did the right thing, but how they went about it may not have been conforming to the pre-determined rules for employees.

Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

#28

Post by rfw300 »

apwheele wrote: post #13

While a favorable ruling for the Data Colada defendants seemed incredibly likely in the end (and of course being dismissed pre-trial before discovery is a good thing). But it still took over a year, and consisted of several pre-trial hearings with multiple back and forths between them. If I ctrl-f https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.259... I see Pyle (their lawyer) listed 11 times. All the motion…

Fortunately, they were able to raise quite a bit of money (>$300K) on GoFundMe: https://www.gofundme.com/f/uhbka-support-data-coladas-legal-...

Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

#30

Post by onlypassingthru »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #7

There is no limits a grifter wont go to in order to continue their grift. Those with the funds regularly get away with it purely because they have the funds to sue their opponents into bankruptcy. The system worked in this case but it so rarely does and we see so often people having to back down due to legal threats.

see: Lance Armstrong.†

† https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/lance_armstrong_admi...

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