Live data from Hacker News

PayPal Bans BitTorrent Friendly VPN Provider

torrentfreak.com

11–20 of 36 posts

Re: PayPal Bans BitTorrent Friendly VPN Provider

#11

People have long been worked up over net neutrality. But what about payment neutrality? It seems like it's just as important, if not more. Why don't we hear enough from people demanding laws that prevent payment processors above a certain size from discriminating based on categories of goods and services? Why can't we make it illegal for MasterCard and Visa to stop processing payments destined for Wikileaks, or PayPa…

Doesn't Paypal censor payments for certain types of books now, too?

Re: PayPal Bans BitTorrent Friendly VPN Provider

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely it would be backwards to dictate who payment processors can and cannot do business with. There are risks involved with banking, a bank will not give a mortgage to a minimum wage worker and we don't expect them to due to the risks associated with such a mortgage, why should a payment processor be expected to take the risks that banks are not?

Uh, so it's okay for the US to wink wink at Amazon, Paypal and numerous other financial payment providers when Wikileaks comes to play? You sound like a true apologist. This stuff matters, it affects people's lives, and it it has NOTHING to do with ROI. That's a bunch of BS. This has to do with favors and stancing and has absolutely nothing to do with profitability or providing a service. I'll show myself the door wh…

You're conflating 2 unrelated issues here. It's not okay for the United States government to request (secretly) for a private enterprise to engage in acts that are detrimental to an individual or business because the United States is unable to do anything themselves within the law, however I don't see how the action taken against Wikileaks has any relevance to the action taken against this business. What indication is there that the US requested this?

Re: PayPal Bans BitTorrent Friendly VPN Provider

#13

People have long been worked up over net neutrality. But what about payment neutrality? It seems like it's just as important, if not more. Why don't we hear enough from people demanding laws that prevent payment processors above a certain size from discriminating based on categories of goods and services? Why can't we make it illegal for MasterCard and Visa to stop processing payments destined for Wikileaks, or PayPa…

Surely it would be backwards to dictate who payment processors can and cannot do business with. There are risks involved with banking, a bank will not give a mortgage to a minimum wage worker and we don't expect them to due to the risks associated with such a mortgage, why should a payment processor be expected to take the risks that banks are not?

Paypal's listed justification has nothing to do with the risk of doing business with the VPN; no previous problems were mentioned.

Re: PayPal Bans BitTorrent Friendly VPN Provider

#14

People have long been worked up over net neutrality. But what about payment neutrality? It seems like it's just as important, if not more. Why don't we hear enough from people demanding laws that prevent payment processors above a certain size from discriminating based on categories of goods and services? Why can't we make it illegal for MasterCard and Visa to stop processing payments destined for Wikileaks, or PayPa…

Surely it would be backwards to dictate who payment processors can and cannot do business with. There are risks involved with banking, a bank will not give a mortgage to a minimum wage worker and we don't expect them to due to the risks associated with such a mortgage, why should a payment processor be expected to take the risks that banks are not?

Once a bank does take someone on, there are very strong regulations on what they can and can not do. A bank can't just cut you off and freeeze your money, as PayPal has done here.

Re: PayPal Bans BitTorrent Friendly VPN Provider

#15
post #8

The funny thing is that PayPal was originally intended to provide safe, transnational money exchange beyond the control of governments. (Somewhat like Bitcoin today.) So they wanted to be a solution to a problem. Now PayPal is part of the problem.

Yeah, they got big enough fast enough that it wasn't practical to squash them. So they got incorporated into the system instead.

If anybody finally does manage to create a transnational money beyond governments, it's going to need to be highly decentralized.

Re: PayPal Bans BitTorrent Friendly VPN Provider

#16

People have long been worked up over net neutrality. But what about payment neutrality? It seems like it's just as important, if not more. Why don't we hear enough from people demanding laws that prevent payment processors above a certain size from discriminating based on categories of goods and services? Why can't we make it illegal for MasterCard and Visa to stop processing payments destined for Wikileaks, or PayPa…

It's called "Bitcoin", simply because it can serve as an independent non-political payment network.

However, its usefulness is limited by poor infrastructure and limited marketshare. Bitcoin is getting more useful, though. There's Bitcoin ATM, smartcards for bitcoin wallets, mobile app that utilize QR code, etc.

Re: PayPal Bans BitTorrent Friendly VPN Provider

#17
post #16

People have long been worked up over net neutrality. But what about payment neutrality? It seems like it's just as important, if not more. Why don't we hear enough from people demanding laws that prevent payment processors above a certain size from discriminating based on categories of goods and services? Why can't we make it illegal for MasterCard and Visa to stop processing payments destined for Wikileaks, or PayPa…

It's called "Bitcoin", simply because it can serve as an independent non-political payment network. However, its usefulness is limited by poor infrastructure and limited marketshare. Bitcoin is getting more useful, though. There's Bitcoin ATM, smartcards for bitcoin wallets, mobile app that utilize QR code, etc.

It's also impossible to charge recurring fees, and unlike Paypal etc, transactions take at least 10 minutes on average to clear (and around an hour if you want a decent amount of security).

For TorGuard that is probably acceptable, but in situations where you want to give your customers immediate access to your service, it's far from ideal.

Re: PayPal Bans BitTorrent Friendly VPN Provider

#18
post #17
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called "Bitcoin", simply because it can serve as an independent non-political payment network. However, its usefulness is limited by poor infrastructure and limited marketshare. Bitcoin is getting more useful, though. There's Bitcoin ATM, smartcards for bitcoin wallets, mobile app that utilize QR code, etc.

It's also impossible to charge recurring fees, and unlike Paypal etc, transactions take at least 10 minutes on average to clear (and around an hour if you want a decent amount of security). For TorGuard that is probably acceptable, but in situations where you want to give your customers immediate access to your service, it's far from ideal.

If you're giving someone access to a service that you can revoke (e.g. web hosting, VPN, etc), it doesn't seem like there's any practical risk in optimistically giving someone access once you see the spend hit the bitcoin network. It's not infeasible to do that in a matter of seconds.

If you're shipping something physical you're not going to be working on a timescale less than an hour anyways.

Really the only time that I see Bitcoin's transaction processing speed being an issue is when you're doing a moderate to large transaction where waiting around would be inconvenient.

Re: PayPal Bans BitTorrent Friendly VPN Provider

#19
post #17
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called "Bitcoin", simply because it can serve as an independent non-political payment network. However, its usefulness is limited by poor infrastructure and limited marketshare. Bitcoin is getting more useful, though. There's Bitcoin ATM, smartcards for bitcoin wallets, mobile app that utilize QR code, etc.

It's also impossible to charge recurring fees, and unlike Paypal etc, transactions take at least 10 minutes on average to clear (and around an hour if you want a decent amount of security). For TorGuard that is probably acceptable, but in situations where you want to give your customers immediate access to your service, it's far from ideal.

yes, but PayPal is so huge that ripping off customers here or there is not a big deal to them. Hopefully they will answer a wakeup call when Square and Dwalla will continue to rise the way they are right now.

I learnt to respect someone accepting bitCoint online, especially after dealing with PayPal for last 6 years. If I have to chose, I use bitcoins, and 10 minutes is not a big deal to wait; no worries!

Re: PayPal Bans BitTorrent Friendly VPN Provider

#20
post #18
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also impossible to charge recurring fees, and unlike Paypal etc, transactions take at least 10 minutes on average to clear (and around an hour if you want a decent amount of security). For TorGuard that is probably acceptable, but in situations where you want to give your customers immediate access to your service, it's far from ideal.

If you're giving someone access to a service that you can revoke (e.g. web hosting, VPN, etc), it doesn't seem like there's any practical risk in optimistically giving someone access once you see the spend hit the bitcoin network. It's not infeasible to do that in a matter of seconds. If you're shipping something physical you're not going to be working on a timescale less than an hour anyways. Really the only time th…

Someone can chain fake btc transactions to your system granting themselves an infinite supply of access on short-lived accounts if you accept an immediate validation.
Post reply on HN