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Europe has opened a door to a universal wallet

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Re: Europe has opened a door to a universal wallet

#21

It's nice that the EU is giving room to such innovation, but I wanted to point out that stuff like this is quite widespread in India: Every shop on the road nowadays has a QR code you scan to make a payment using any UPI[0] compatible app. Thus, the age old problem of a shop not having change is quite rare nowadays (if you're not a minor that is, because all UPI apps are 18+). UPI is centered around your phone number…

>if you're not a minor that is, because all UPI apps are 18+ I didn't know this, and neither do minors in India who use it for daily purchases.

> minors in India who use it for daily purchases.

Interesting, I haven't seen this in my city (Chennai).

I myself learned of this when I attempted to set up GPay, but was blocked from signing up because I'm not 18

Re: Europe has opened a door to a universal wallet

#22
post #17
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easier to force them to unlock it then and there. Less bloody.

On my phone it requires a new fingerprint validation on transaction. So still bloody. Depending on the fingerprint scanner "no blood present" might also not work.

Yeah, that is what I mean. Force the transaction right then and there.

Re: Europe has opened a door to a universal wallet

#23
Wow, some pretty strong opinions here. Did somebody say Nazis?

Tech innovations are always a mixed bag, but there are some great ideas in this, like selective disclosure, where you don't have to reveal all your personal info (address on driver's license) when proving your age. Is uploading a picture of your physical credentials to pretty random web sites supposed to be a better solution?

I also think people deserve to have well described data and interactions, and their "wallet" should become a coherent place of organizing long term information. These standards create that possibility. Letting companies dominate and invent things to their needs as they go along is not a better solution.

It takes some strength from governments to do this properly, which some will point to as backward (witness the reaction to iPhone AI features). But companies have not found the end point of innovation, it needs to be kept open and directed by broad people needs, not the current shiny.

Re: Europe has opened a door to a universal wallet

#24

Bernners lee is being a useful idiot on SOLID. It's a pipe dream that doesn't help anyone but companies trying to own your data INSTEAD of google. Basically replacing one evil with another, not solving the problem. It is 100% a worse option than a cloud drive. Anyone in the digital ID space knows there's a war going on. States will adopt digital ID. And everyone is rushing to own it.

Google &c already own most people's data. This makes it possible for it to be portable and network based.

Re: Europe has opened a door to a universal wallet

#25

There’s no way this is an improvement over cash when it comes to privacy. It’s an onramp to a vast surveillance state that might be benevolent now but can’t be counted on to stay that way indefinitely. In fact, building the infrastructure to make authoritarian control easy, also makes it more likely. It’s not hard to imagine a future where Dutch farmers go to a gas (or charging) station on their way to a protest find…

These "wallets" are badly named, they are about credentials, not money. Think of a wallet of identity cards (driver's license, etc).

Re: Europe has opened a door to a universal wallet

#26
This seems like a misunderstanding of what eID is.

https://ec.europa.eu/digital-building-blocks/sites/display/D...

eID is a federated identity system that uses national electronic ID systems as the identity sources. That's useful especially for apps on the EU level, e.g. for customs, to submit what you're importing as a company.

In practice, I won't be able to use my phone as a replacement for my passport when traveling internationally. But I might be able to use my phone, in combination with my national ID card which has a NFC chip inside, to submit a government form in another EU country.

Re: Europe has opened a door to a universal wallet

#27

Bernners lee is being a useful idiot on SOLID. It's a pipe dream that doesn't help anyone but companies trying to own your data INSTEAD of google. Basically replacing one evil with another, not solving the problem. It is 100% a worse option than a cloud drive. Anyone in the digital ID space knows there's a war going on. States will adopt digital ID. And everyone is rushing to own it.

Google &c already own most people's data. This makes it possible for it to be portable and network based.

Not so.

Google most of your data. If you have your tax records on gdrive, google so far cannot target ads based on that content (i can't say forsure if you attach your tax form in gmail nowadays)

With SOLID any site can simply say "we need your tax records to prove you're a human or combat fraud whatever".

SOLID and all other not-solutions like it make your consent as useless as android app permissions. Accept a huge list they don't even bother to show anymore or go away.

Remember how android 2.3 you still could deny internet access permission? With SOLID it will be the same. Full ID data will eventually move to expandable list of permissions you will give by default.

I bet benners thought very hard about all the math and network etc. But he's being a buffoon when it comes to understanding applicability.

Re: Europe has opened a door to a universal wallet

#28
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonder how long until people get desperate enough to steal phones and the owner's thumb...

this has been fantasized about since the first widely available smartphones with fingerprint sensors, and to date the number of cut fingers has kept pretty low

Way before that. Recall comic books showing a future where criminals mug people on the street and remove their "money chip" from the victims torso. It's a common dystopian trope.

But so far, stolen phones are already enough to pay your rent. Wonder when it won't, but the wallet inside would buy you something even nicer.

Re: Europe has opened a door to a universal wallet

#29
post #23

Wow, some pretty strong opinions here. Did somebody say Nazis? Tech innovations are always a mixed bag, but there are some great ideas in this, like selective disclosure, where you don't have to reveal all your personal info (address on driver's license) when proving your age. Is uploading a picture of your physical credentials to pretty random web sites supposed to be a better solution? I also think people deserve t…

> great ideas in this, like selective disclosure

How will a centralized wallet used for everything solve the human factors problems?

We know there's a deep human factors issue here. Web sites and apps ask for permission seemingly all the time for as much as they can, and most people just agree, because they've learned that usually works.

Until it doesn't.

Here's a Fortune article of how BankID, a widely-used electronic ID in Sweden, is used in fraud, at https://fortune.com/europe/2024/06/21/why-going-cashless-has... :

"For Bagley, the fact that BankID is so commonplace is part of the problem. “It ends up not really being a security measure, but just another step in using a website,” she said. “You don’t really think twice about what the BankID app might say you are logging into.”"

You can blame Bagley for not double-checking the transfer before verifying, but she's not the only one. "Online fraud and digital crime in Sweden have surged, with criminals taking 1.2 billion kronor in 2023 through scams like the one Bagley fell for, doubling from 2021."

Re: Europe has opened a door to a universal wallet

#30
"After your flight touches down, you collect a rental car. You flash a digital driver’s licence to unlock the door. You drive to your new home. On the way, you stop off at a store and bag up groceries,"

... your phone screen cracks, and you can't afford a new one, even if there was a way you could pay for it without a phone ...

This effortless convenience of spending money might be a corporate-technology dream, but it's going to be a nightmare for so many people.

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