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We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

labs.watchtowr.com

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Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#31

Post by giancarlostoro »

I still remember when websites would redirect you on your phone to their .mobi website, completely screwing up the original intent. They didn't show you the mobile version of whatever Google let you towards, they just lazily redirected you to the .mobi homepage. I bet they asked a non-dev to do those redirects, that one IT neckbeard who shoved a redirect into an Apache2 config file and moved on with life. :)

But seriously, it was the most frustrating thing about the mobile web.

Is this TLD even worth a damn in 2024?

Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#32

Post by iscoelho »

candiddevmike wrote: post #28
iscoelho wrote: post #3

Great write-up - the tip of the iceberg on how fragile TLS/SSL is. Let's add a few: 1. WHOIS isn't encrypted or signed, but is somehow suitable for verification (?) 2. DNS CAA records aren't protected by DNSSEC, as absence of a DNS record isn't sign-able (correction: NSEC is an optional DNSSEC extension) 3. DNS root & TLD servers are poorly protected against BGP hijacks (adding that DNSSEC is optional for CAs to veri…

Our industry needs to finish what it starts. Between IPv6, DNSSEC, SMTP TLS, SCTP/QUIC, etc all of these bedrock technologies feel like they're permanently stuck in a half completed implementation/migration. Like someone at your work had all these great ideas, started implementing them, then quit when they realized it would be too difficult to complete.

obligatory https://xkcd.com/927/

Honestly: we're in this situation because we keep trying to band-aid solutions onto ancient protocols that were never designed to be secure. (I'm talking about you DNS.) Given xkcd's wisdom though, I'm not sure if this is easily solvable.

Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#33

Post by dopylitty »

detourdog wrote: post #27
lobsterthief wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human relationships also open you up to social engineering attacks. Unless they’re face-to-face, in person, with someone who remembers what you actually look like. Which is rare these days.

That is my point. We need to put value on the face to face relationships and extend trust outward from our personal relationships. This sort of trust is only as strong as it's weakest link but each individual can choose how far to extend their own trust.

This is such a good point. We rely way too much on technical solutions.

A better approach is to have hyperlocal offices where you can go to do business. Is this less “efficient”? Yes but when the proceeds of efficiency go to shareholders anyway it doesn’t really matter.

Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#34

Post by mschuster91 »

candiddevmike wrote: post #28
iscoelho wrote: post #3

Great write-up - the tip of the iceberg on how fragile TLS/SSL is. Let's add a few: 1. WHOIS isn't encrypted or signed, but is somehow suitable for verification (?) 2. DNS CAA records aren't protected by DNSSEC, as absence of a DNS record isn't sign-able (correction: NSEC is an optional DNSSEC extension) 3. DNS root & TLD servers are poorly protected against BGP hijacks (adding that DNSSEC is optional for CAs to veri…

Our industry needs to finish what it starts. Between IPv6, DNSSEC, SMTP TLS, SCTP/QUIC, etc all of these bedrock technologies feel like they're permanently stuck in a half completed implementation/migration. Like someone at your work had all these great ideas, started implementing them, then quit when they realized it would be too difficult to complete.

> Like someone at your work had all these great ideas, started implementing them, then quit when they realized it would be too difficult to complete.

The problem is, in many of these fields actual real-world politics come into play - you got governments not wanting to lose the capability to do DNS censorship or other forms of sabotage, you got piss poor countries barely managing to keep the faintest of lights on, you got ISPs with systems that have grown over literal decades where any kind of major breaking change would require investments into rearchitecture larger than the company is worth, you got government regulations mandating stuff like all communications of staff be logged (e.g. banking/finance) which is made drastically more complex if TLS cannot be intercepted or where interceptor solutions must be certified making updates to them about as slow as molasses...

Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#35

Post by jrochkind1 »

iscoelho wrote: post #3

Great write-up - the tip of the iceberg on how fragile TLS/SSL is. Let's add a few: 1. WHOIS isn't encrypted or signed, but is somehow suitable for verification (?) 2. DNS CAA records aren't protected by DNSSEC, as absence of a DNS record isn't sign-able (correction: NSEC is an optional DNSSEC extension) 3. DNS root & TLD servers are poorly protected against BGP hijacks (adding that DNSSEC is optional for CAs to veri…

> It must be because if anyone abuses these issues, someone might wake up and care enough to fix them

If anyone knows they are being abused, anyway. I conclude that someone may be abusing them, but those doing so try to keep it unknown that they have done so, to preserve their access to the vulnerability.

Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#36

Post by iscoelho »

mschuster91 wrote: post #34
candiddevmike wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our industry needs to finish what it starts. Between IPv6, DNSSEC, SMTP TLS, SCTP/QUIC, etc all of these bedrock technologies feel like they're permanently stuck in a half completed implementation/migration. Like someone at your work had all these great ideas, started implementing them, then quit when they realized it would be too difficult to complete.

> Like someone at your work had all these great ideas, started implementing them, then quit when they realized it would be too difficult to complete. The problem is, in many of these fields actual real-world politics come into play - you got governments not wanting to lose the capability to do DNS censorship or other forms of sabotage, you got piss poor countries barely managing to keep the faintest of lights on, you…

Considering we have 3 major tech companies (Microsoft/Apple/Google) controlling 90+% of user devices and browsers, I believe this is more solvable than we'd like to admit.

Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#37

Post by sulandor »

iscoelho wrote: post #32
candiddevmike wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our industry needs to finish what it starts. Between IPv6, DNSSEC, SMTP TLS, SCTP/QUIC, etc all of these bedrock technologies feel like they're permanently stuck in a half completed implementation/migration. Like someone at your work had all these great ideas, started implementing them, then quit when they realized it would be too difficult to complete.

obligatory https://xkcd.com/927/ Honestly: we're in this situation because we keep trying to band-aid solutions onto ancient protocols that were never designed to be secure. (I'm talking about you DNS.) Given xkcd's wisdom though, I'm not sure if this is easily solvable.

dns should not have to be secure, it should be regulated as a public utility with 3rd-party quality control and all the whistles.

only then can it be trustworthy, fast and free/accessible

Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#38

Post by rixthefox »

> We recently performed research that started off "well-intentioned" (or as well-intentioned as we ever are) - to make vulnerabilities in WHOIS clients and how they parse responses from WHOIS servers exploitable in the real world (i.e. without needing to MITM etc).

R̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ o̶f̶f̶ t̶h̶e̶ b̶a̶t̶, S̶T̶O̶P̶. I̶ d̶o̶n̶'t̶ c̶a̶r̶e̶ w̶h̶o̶ y̶o̶u̶ a̶r̶e̶ o̶r̶ h̶o̶w̶ "w̶e̶l̶l̶-̶i̶n̶t̶e̶n̶t̶i̶o̶n̶e̶d̶" s̶o̶m̶e̶o̶n̶e̶ i̶s̶. I̶n̶t̶e̶n̶t̶i̶o̶n̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ s̶p̶r̶i̶n̶k̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ i̶n̶ v̶u̶l̶n̶e̶r̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ c̶o̶d̶e̶, K̶N̶O̶W̶I̶N̶G̶L̶Y̶ a̶n̶d̶ W̶I̶L̶L̶I̶N̶G̶L̶Y̶ t̶o̶ "a̶t̶ s̶o̶m̶e̶ p̶o̶i̶n̶t̶ a̶c̶h̶i̶e̶v̶e̶ R̶C̶E̶" i̶s̶ b̶e̶h̶a̶v̶i̶o̶r̶ t̶h̶a̶t̶ I̶ c̶a̶n̶ n̶e̶i̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ c̶o̶n̶d̶o̶n̶e̶ n̶o̶r̶ s̶u̶p̶p̶o̶r̶t̶. I̶ t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶t̶ t̶h̶i̶s̶ k̶i̶n̶d̶ o̶f̶ r̶o̶g̶u̶e̶ c̶o̶n̶t̶r̶i̶b̶u̶t̶i̶o̶n̶s̶ t̶o̶ p̶r̶o̶j̶e̶c̶t̶s̶ h̶a̶d̶ a̶ g̶r̶e̶a̶t̶ e̶x̶a̶m̶p̶l̶e̶ w̶i̶t̶h̶ t̶h̶e̶ U̶n̶i̶v̶e̶r̶s̶i̶t̶y̶ o̶f̶ M̶i̶n̶n̶e̶s̶o̶t̶a̶ o̶f̶ w̶h̶a̶t̶ n̶o̶t̶ t̶o̶ d̶o̶ w̶h̶e̶n̶ t̶h̶e̶y̶ g̶o̶t̶ a̶l̶l̶ t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ c̶o̶n̶t̶r̶i̶b̶u̶t̶i̶o̶n̶s̶ r̶e̶v̶o̶k̶e̶d̶ a̶n̶d̶ f̶o̶r̶c̶e̶ r̶e̶v̶i̶e̶w̶e̶d̶ o̶n̶ t̶h̶e̶ L̶i̶n̶u̶x̶ k̶e̶r̶n̶e̶l̶.

EDIT: This is not what the group has done upon further scrutiny of the article. It's just their very first sentence makes it sound like they were intentionally introducing vulnerabilities in existing codebases to achieve a result.

I definitely can see that it should have been worded a bit better to make the reader aware that they had not contributed bad code but were finding existing vulnerabilities in software which is much better than where I went initially.

Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#39

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #35
iscoelho wrote: post #3

Great write-up - the tip of the iceberg on how fragile TLS/SSL is. Let's add a few: 1. WHOIS isn't encrypted or signed, but is somehow suitable for verification (?) 2. DNS CAA records aren't protected by DNSSEC, as absence of a DNS record isn't sign-able (correction: NSEC is an optional DNSSEC extension) 3. DNS root & TLD servers are poorly protected against BGP hijacks (adding that DNSSEC is optional for CAs to veri…

> It must be because if anyone abuses these issues, someone might wake up and care enough to fix them If anyone knows they are being abused, anyway. I conclude that someone may be abusing them, but those doing so try to keep it unknown that they have done so, to preserve their access to the vulnerability.

Didn't Jon Postel do something like this, once?

It was long ago, and I don't remember the details, but I do remember a lot of people having shit hemorrhages.

Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#40

Post by colmmacc »

candiddevmike wrote: post #28
iscoelho wrote: post #3

Great write-up - the tip of the iceberg on how fragile TLS/SSL is. Let's add a few: 1. WHOIS isn't encrypted or signed, but is somehow suitable for verification (?) 2. DNS CAA records aren't protected by DNSSEC, as absence of a DNS record isn't sign-able (correction: NSEC is an optional DNSSEC extension) 3. DNS root & TLD servers are poorly protected against BGP hijacks (adding that DNSSEC is optional for CAs to veri…

Our industry needs to finish what it starts. Between IPv6, DNSSEC, SMTP TLS, SCTP/QUIC, etc all of these bedrock technologies feel like they're permanently stuck in a half completed implementation/migration. Like someone at your work had all these great ideas, started implementing them, then quit when they realized it would be too difficult to complete.

If you look at say 3G -> 4G -> 5G or Wifi, you see industry bodies of manufacturers, network providers, and middle vendors who both standardize and coordinate deployment schedules; at least at the high level of multi-year timelines. This is also backed by national and international RF spectrum regulators who want to ensure that there is the most efficient use of their scarce airwaves. Industry players who lag too much tend to lose business quite quickly.

Then if you look at the internet, there is a very uncoordinated collection of manufacturers, network providers, and standardization is driven in a more open manner that is good for transparency but is also prone to complexifying log-jams and hecklers vetos. Where we see success, like the promotion of TLS improvements, it's largely because a small number of knowledgable players - browsers in the case of TLS - agree to enforce improvements on the entire eco-system. That in turn is driven by simple self-interest. Google, Apple, and Microsoft all have strong incentives to ensure that TLS remains secure; their ads and services revenue depend upon it.

But technologies like DNSSEC, IPv6, QUIC all face a much harder road. To be effective they need a long chain of players to support the feature, and many of those players have active disincentives. If a home users internet seems to work just fine, why be the manufacturer that is first to support say DNSSEC validation and deal with all of the increased support cases when it breaks, or device returns when consumers perceive that it broke something? (and it will).

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