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Playstation 5 Pro

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Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#151

Post by johnnyanmac »

yesimahuman wrote: post #101
sjnonweb wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A similar performing 4070ti alone will cost $750, and thats just gpu. Including cpu, memory, storage it will be more than $1500.

Thanks for the downvotes for pointing out that, as part of the target market for this product, I scratch my head a bit as it touches more in the PC territory than cheaper consoles did in the past. If you bought both this and the PS5 you're already at ~$1200, and a great PC build can be had for close to that. I think it's totally legitimate to point out this starts to encroach on the pc's territory.

>Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

reminder.

>If you bought both this and the PS5 you're already at ~$1200

why would I buy both? PS5 probably still sells for more than launch price in the US. I'd basically break even selling it and then proceed to spend $130 on a dang disc drive. So we're still 600-700 dollars in after 4 years.

>I scratch my head a bit as it touches more in the PC territory than cheaper consoles did in the past.

Mostly because PC's stopped enroaching in console territory some 7 years ago or so, when mining became popular. There was a time where you could build a PC for $400 with the equivalent specs of a PS4/XBO. Any premium was to get better performance.

PS5 Pro does start to enroach, but PC components (mostly the GPU, but a few other components as well) have inflated faster than the consoles. Feels like one of the worst times to buy a PC if your argument is price matching a console.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#152

Post by 5350-uiop-1130 »

WillAdams wrote: post #24
5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #8

i realised recently that the transition to HD made everything look and sound the same to me. unlike the distinctive eras of the 90s, 80s, 70s...so on. and now with realistic graphics, even games are starting to all look the same to me. i feel that the limitation born art and era-specific traits of the pre-HD era have been lost. i just dont feel anything looking at these new games. but then i'm not young anymore.

Well, could I interest you in a Nintendo Switch? Switch games still have markedly diverse graphic styles (and _great_ art direction).

one of the issues...i think. if you make a game now, it has to scale to different resolutions for different displays.

so to do that cheaply you need to use some kind of vector art. which gives everything this kind of vector smoothness which eliminates some of the roughness which gives character and charm.

but i agree that the switch is the closest remaining thing to that past era.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#153

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

StrLght wrote: post #17
jsheard wrote: post #5

$700 and it doesn't even come with an optical drive, oof. The optical upgrade kit for the digital-only PS5 Slim is $80, so the Pro is probably going to be closer to $800 in practice unless you're already all-in on digital.

Asking this as a PC gamer who went fully digital ~15 years ago: why are optical drives such a big deal, is that because of buying/selling used games?

We don't have the option for physical on pc, but it's the only way to "own" a videogame. Even steam is at risk. If Gabe dies, bad stuff will happen.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#154

Post by pjmlp »

Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #153
StrLght wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking this as a PC gamer who went fully digital ~15 years ago: why are optical drives such a big deal, is that because of buying/selling used games?

We don't have the option for physical on pc, but it's the only way to "own" a videogame. Even steam is at risk. If Gabe dies, bad stuff will happen.

So far no one has managed to escape that "if" unless we go down into religious beliefs.

Steam will go the way of dodo when the founder and his culture is no longer around.

Who knows, the new management might even sell it to Microsoft and retire for life.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#155

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

pjmlp wrote: post #154
Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have the option for physical on pc, but it's the only way to "own" a videogame. Even steam is at risk. If Gabe dies, bad stuff will happen.

So far no one has managed to escape that "if" unless we go down into religious beliefs. Steam will go the way of dodo when the founder and his culture is no longer around. Who knows, the new management might even sell it to Microsoft and retire for life.

It's a running joke that Gabe is a god and will live forever

Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#156

Post by pjmlp »

nerdjon wrote: post #103
ukuina wrote: post #81

The pricing feels like a direct response to Microsoft essentially exiting the console market.

Except Microsoft has said they have new Xbox hardware coming. We really need to stop spreading this misinformation (and hyperbole) just because Microsoft is operating a different business model than Sony is. I am not happy about the price either, but this generation has been weird with Microsoft and Sony not dropping their price and increasing prices in some locations. I doubt this has anything to do with Xbox.

That is whishful thinking, even if they release the magical console, it will tank, given their attitude of "You don't need a box to play XBox branded games", while putting their games everywhere there is a GPU.

I certainly don't care any longer about it beyond the XBox App on Windows.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#157

Post by pjmlp »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #146
mrweasel wrote: post #33

I'm getting really tired of this "Pro" bullshit. The issue with the PlayStation 5 isn't the bloody specs, it the f-ing price. The PlayStation 5 Slim is $600 already, we don't need a $700 one (which it won't be, because that is US pricing and probably not including tax). Sony needs a $350 model, not this Pro nonsense. Who is the target audience for this?

> Who is the target audience for this? gamers who complain about 30fps on comments sections, apparently. And in all fairness, Xbox tried the $350 gen 9 console... it apparently caused (and still causes) huge issues for development

Which is kind of silly, given the miriad of PC and Android devices some of the same studios also target.

So they manage some potato PCs as minimum requirements but not the Series S?

Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#158

Post by pjmlp »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #151
yesimahuman wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the downvotes for pointing out that, as part of the target market for this product, I scratch my head a bit as it touches more in the PC territory than cheaper consoles did in the past. If you bought both this and the PS5 you're already at ~$1200, and a great PC build can be had for close to that. I think it's totally legitimate to point out this starts to encroach on the pc's territory.

>Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. reminder. >If you bought both this and the PS5 you're already at ~$1200 why would I buy both? PS5 probably still sells for more than launch price in the US. I'd basically break even selling it and then proceed to spend $130 on a dang disc drive. So we're still 600-700 dollars in after 4 years. >I scratch my head a…

Yeah, additionally it seems really weird that most PC stores in shopping malls don't sell ready made desktops with anything beyond i5 as CPU, one has to go into custom desktops increasing the whole price.

It is no longer the case that buying a regular mid-range desktop PC was good enough for gaming purposes.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#159

Post by ageitgey »

pawelduda wrote: post #127
ageitgey wrote: post #83

I'm sure this will sell just fine, but in the history of consoles there has never been less incentive to upgrade. It just doesn't feel like the upgrade delivers anything tangible for the average person. Many games I want to play these days barely take full advantage of the base PS5, let alone needing more hardware. A lot of cheaper titles aren't even bothering to take advantage of the PS5 over the PS4. There are some…

You are grossly overestimating what PS5 can do in regards of 4k, let alone 8k (which nowadays is used by very small percentage of enthusiasts). 4k native is not something most of the modern releases target on PS5, perhaps in some specific moments when the resolution is dynamic and not much is happening on the screen. Or if you're playing at a locked 30 FPS, which is a major tradeoff.

Not disagreeing with you that many heavy PS5 games rely on dynamic resolution to hit a good frame rate. And for some people, that's enough reason to upgrade. They want they best available no matter what.

But my point is that a holding a solid 4k vs dropping down from 4k to 2k upscaled when the action ramps up is barely visible to most people sitting 6 feet from a TV. It's diminishing returns. And what does 8k bring if you don't have a 200in tv? Can you even see the difference?

Digital cameras went through a similar cycle. Since about 2008, high-end digital cameras have been good enough that the pictures from them still look great when produced by a good photographer. There has been a lot of sensor improvement since then around dynamic range, etc, but it is not super obvious in a sales demo. Digital camera sales have totally fallen off a cliff and now what sells now is software improvements on cell phones that make it easier to take good pictures with no thought, not drastic hardware improvements.

I think that consoles are starting to hit a point where they are powerful enough for the kinds of games that we currently have the resources to build. Making the graphics even "better" requires an enormous development investment that only pays off for the few most popular blockbuster games. It's hard for a console maker to find compelling demonstrations of why they need more power right now.

Like with cameras, miniaturization and new form factors is really interesting. Nintendo is killing it with the Switch despite the dinosaur hardware. It's a lot easier for them to demo improvements for a Switch 2 because the Switch isn't at the point of "good enough" yet for many types of games.

Of course computers will get more powerful and console development isn't done forever or anything like that. But it feels like the hardware is currently a bit ahead of the software maybe for the first time in history which makes the value of a upgrade tenuous for many consumers.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#160

Post by TMWNN »

kstrauser wrote: post #58
StrLght wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking this as a PC gamer who went fully digital ~15 years ago: why are optical drives such a big deal, is that because of buying/selling used games?

Sony released this tutorial years ago in response to Microsoft making it harder to share Xbox games with your friends: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSIFh8ICaA That's lived in my head since.

It's just below "$299" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExaAYIKsDBI> among the greatest moments of console marketing.

(The single greatest moment isn't one moment, but turning an obscure technical description into "blast processing". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bun8tA_ksZw>)

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