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How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

empirical.health

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Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#151

Post by hombre_fatal »

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #55
lysace wrote: post #8

The gatekeeping in the CPAP field is so insane. 1. Yes, we should regulate manufacturers intensely. 2. No, we shouldn't regulate to whom companies should be allowed to sell them. The defaults are good enough for most. Provide an easy to use control for max pressure and people will figure it out. Perhaps a knob? I claim: During the past decade, the risk of being maltreated by a personally set-up CPAP unit has been far…

I generally agree with you but even people with a prescription who have sleep apnea have a lot of trouble using their CPAP consistently and correctly, even after it is titrated by professionals in an overnight session. Some people obviously are capable of diagnosing and solving their own medical problems and are willing to learn and do the work but most people aren't. I don't think that opening up CPAPs to the masses…

> I don't think that opening up CPAPs to the masses would suddenly "solve" sleep apnea, most people will still need to go through a similar process that exists now.

A $200 CPAP with a knob that lets you control pressure absolutely would solve sleep apnea for much more people than gatekeeping it behind an insane price + having to make a doctor's appointment through insurance just to get them to turn the knob for you.

Because those who can't turn a knob themselves would still be able to schedule an appointment with a knob-turner without making the rest of us have to do it as well.

I got a hand me down CPAP from my dad, bought a mask off Amazon, played with the knob a bit, and within a week I cured my central sleep apnea. It's just not hard for anyone who doesn't think the doctor has divine capabilities over what they could do themselves (turning a knob).

But instead we infantilize everyone by requiring them to do the equivalent of taking their car in for a licensed professional to check their oil dipstick. And, of course, making them or their insurance pay $300 for the pleasure.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#152

Post by Suppafly »

lysace wrote: post #8

The gatekeeping in the CPAP field is so insane. 1. Yes, we should regulate manufacturers intensely. 2. No, we shouldn't regulate to whom companies should be allowed to sell them. The defaults are good enough for most. Provide an easy to use control for max pressure and people will figure it out. Perhaps a knob? I claim: During the past decade, the risk of being maltreated by a personally set-up CPAP unit has been far…

It's the same with hearing aids, they are finally getting around to understanding that people can figure out if a device is helpful to them or not without needing a licensed doctor involved.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#153

Post by hombre_fatal »

emporas wrote: post #109
dave333 wrote: post #102

Amazing that you can get much the same functionality in a off brand $30 watch these days - at least monitors sleep and blood oxygen - although it explicitly does not do medical diagnosis. Still every senior should have one for many reasons.

Sleep apnea is very easily fixed. You have to increase blood pressure on the head by a lot, for a little bit of time each day, half an hour to an hour and it is 100% fixable. Additionaly increasing blood pressure on the head helps for sleeping more. I do that and sleep for an average of 10 hours a day. 12 hours or 14 hours/day of sleep for me, is not rare either. Also increasing the blood pressure on the head helps f…

This doesn't make any sense.

How is increased head pressure 30-60min a day going to change the fact that your soft tissue at the back of your throat closes the airway when you're sleeping?

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#154

Post by Suppafly »

IOT_Apprentice wrote: post #54
tlb wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That should have been done from day 1. Now, however, there are 1000s of doctors who make fat stacks prescribing CPAP machines, and they'll fight tooth and nail to not lose their whole business.

The car salesman who we worked with leasing our Lexus had a bad flu and didn’t wear his mask ONE night and died in his sleep. We found out when we went back to the dealer. He left wife and a special needs son. I lie my father before me suffer from extreme sleep apnea. I want to make sure my sons have the detection this will bring.

>The car salesman who we worked with leasing our Lexus had a bad flu and didn’t wear his mask ONE night and died in his sleep.

My dad's friend died like that, not a flu, but was traveling overnight and didn't take his machine and died in his sleep. Although I almost wonder if this heavy reliance on cpap machines causes people to lose some innate ability to recognize when they stop breathing or at least delays the normal instinct to wake up and breathe.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#155

Post by hombre_fatal »

breck wrote: post #97
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies? — Buster Baxter (written by Matt Steinglass, 2005) People make stuff up, especially online. If you expect others to believe you about your "very strong dataset", you should provide that very strong dataset (complete with provenance).

Did you miss the very first thread, where I provided a link to the book containing the dataset, which came out 100 years before "online" invented?

I just skimmed the whole book. Could you point out any of these "datasets" you think exist in the book and how you think they support the claim that all these ailments stem from not closing our mouths while we sleep.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#156

Post by wizzwizz4 »

breck wrote: post #97
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies? — Buster Baxter (written by Matt Steinglass, 2005) People make stuff up, especially online. If you expect others to believe you about your "very strong dataset", you should provide that very strong dataset (complete with provenance).

Did you miss the very first thread, where I provided a link to the book containing the dataset, which came out 100 years before "online" invented?

That's what you call a "very strong dataset"‽ It doesn't have a single controlled experiment! No studies of individuals in a population. It's just a series of anthropological observations, and then the author's guesses at the reasons for those observations. The book has stronger evidence for the harms of alcohol than mouth-breathing.

This author is one of the good 19th-century anthropologists (as judged by his scathing criticism of the institutions of 19th-century anthropology), but he's still a 19th-century anthropologist. The books' framing device is the idea that “the Tribes of North and South America” (including Sioux! with horses!!) lived in a “primitive condition”: while his observations are careful, and believable, his conclusions are incredible leaps of logic.

I can confidently assert that mouth-breathing does not deform the spine.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#157

Post by emporas »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #153
emporas wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sleep apnea is very easily fixed. You have to increase blood pressure on the head by a lot, for a little bit of time each day, half an hour to an hour and it is 100% fixable. Additionaly increasing blood pressure on the head helps for sleeping more. I do that and sleep for an average of 10 hours a day. 12 hours or 14 hours/day of sleep for me, is not rare either. Also increasing the blood pressure on the head helps f…

This doesn't make any sense. How is increased head pressure 30-60min a day going to change the fact that your soft tissue at the back of your throat closes the airway when you're sleeping?

It does make sense.

Any other solution to clear out liquids from nasal airways doesn't make sense. Nasal sprays for example are total garbage. Measuring how much the airways are blocked doesn't make any sense either.

The goal is to clear out stuff from the airways and there are several ways to achieve it, all of them much worse than what i describe. They all hover in 5% efficacy to 20% or 30% efficacy.

The only other solution with such a high percentage of efficacy, is to chew 10.000 times a day, which is very inefficient.

Monkeys when climbing on trees, turn upside down hundred times a day. People who climb trees and turn upside down hundred times a day, have no sleep apnea problems.

Instead of climbing on trees, there is a way to simulate that effect on the industrial age.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#158

Post by breck »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #155
breck wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you miss the very first thread, where I provided a link to the book containing the dataset, which came out 100 years before "online" invented?

I just skimmed the whole book. Could you point out any of these "datasets" you think exist in the book and how you think they support the claim that all these ailments stem from not closing our mouths while we sleep.

Page 2:

"During my Ethnographic labours amongst those wild people I have visited 150 Tribes, containing more than two millions of souls ; and therefore have had, in all probability, more extensive opportunities than any other man living, of examining their sanitary system ;"

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#159

Post by breck »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #156
breck wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you miss the very first thread, where I provided a link to the book containing the dataset, which came out 100 years before "online" invented?

That's what you call a "very strong dataset"‽ It doesn't have a single controlled experiment! No studies of individuals in a population. It's just a series of anthropological observations, and then the author's guesses at the reasons for those observations. The book has stronger evidence for the harms of alcohol than mouth-breathing. This author is one of the good 19th-century anthropologists (as judged by his scathi…

"During my Ethnographic labours amongst those wild people I have visited 150 Tribes, containing more than two millions of souls ;"

> That's what you call a "very strong dataset"‽

Yes!!!

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#160

Post by wizzwizz4 »

breck wrote: post #159
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what you call a "very strong dataset"‽ It doesn't have a single controlled experiment! No studies of individuals in a population. It's just a series of anthropological observations, and then the author's guesses at the reasons for those observations. The book has stronger evidence for the harms of alcohol than mouth-breathing. This author is one of the good 19th-century anthropologists (as judged by his scathi…

"During my Ethnographic labours amongst those wild people I have visited 150 Tribes, containing more than two millions of souls ;" > That's what you call a "very strong dataset"‽ Yes!!!

The book doesn't contain two million points of data. Count the actual number of statistics in the book: I doubt you'll get more than a dozen.
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