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Playstation 5 Pro

blog.playstation.com

111–120 of 183 posts

Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#111

I'm getting really tired of this "Pro" bullshit. The issue with the PlayStation 5 isn't the bloody specs, it the f-ing price. The PlayStation 5 Slim is $600 already, we don't need a $700 one (which it won't be, because that is US pricing and probably not including tax). Sony needs a $350 model, not this Pro nonsense. Who is the target audience for this?

Microsoft was upfront that they didn’t think a mid-gen price cut was in the cards, so here’s the series s, it’s what we can do and we’ll do it right now, etc.

They were right and not only have prices not really come down, but in some ways they’ve increased.

The unfortunate consequences of a post-Moores law reality. Like yeah nothing is getting 2x better for the same price even every 3-4 years anymore. Your expectations based on past history will no longer hold true, and this has been clear for a number of years now.

You can’t make a gamer understand something when his wallet depends on him not understanding it. People have been in active denial for years, in ways that have crossed into objective denial of reality. The "AMD is just choosing to join NVIDIA and gouge!" stuff has been joined by "and sony is in on it too!" etc. Yes, corporations suck but the margins are not actually very fat here, this is just what it costs now.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#112
post #31

This has been such a weird generation of consoles from a price standpoint but I know a lot of that is just due to pricing of things being weird anyways. This is expensive, I am struggling to really justify it at the moment (and I have a 4090 in my PC so it isn't some thoughts about price or power or whatever). Games right now are just not really struggling. Last time around these pro consoles came out we were running…

XBox is in a strange position, there are rumours of a next generation console, but I don't believe it matters.

Microsoft has been behaving as if XBox has become an umbrella brand for Microsoft Game Studios, after ABK acquisition.

They are going the way of SEGA, regardless how much Phil Spencer says they aren't.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, could I interest you in a Nintendo Switch? Switch games still have markedly diverse graphic styles (and _great_ art direction).

Only because they are underpowered with old hardware. Just overclocking gives better performance but still dips below 60fps on first party titles. But they had to make those sacrifices because it's a portable console first with a tv dock. Nintendo always had slowdowns from the beginning with nes, SNES, N64. But these days it's just not acceptable to have those kinds of performance issues.

> Only because they are underpowered with old hardware.

yes, adversity breeds character. did Star Wars get better when Lucas got unlimited money and green screens?

Having hardware limitations forced devs to scope their vision appropriately and focus on the aspects they actually wanted to emphasize.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#114
The differences in strategies between Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo are absolutely wild, but I think it also really speaks to their respective DNA as a consumer electronics company, a software company, and a toy company respectively. Superficially they all look like videogame console companies, but they're very different companies that just so happen to use videogames as the means to execute their strategy.

Sony seems to presently be on a path that's somewhat dictated by their traditional console concepts of moving data around as fast as possible given consumer budgets, and using that as an enabler of greater and greater spectacle for consumers by a large and well rounded network of development houses. This has worked really well for them for all generations of their gaming strategy.

Microsoft is focused on developer experience and using that to drive consumer demand, just doing it in games. This has worked pretty well for them in the West, but has failed abysmally in some parts of the world where the relationship between software developer and consumer isn't as strong. They seem to be working overtime trying to confuse consumers, kill viable IP, and get themselves out of the market in the next generation or two.

Nintendo is focused on the best way to create unique experiences of "play" for the consumer where their own IP is the vanguard for the system, and every other company sits in "other play experiences you can also have...if you want". This will work for them on some generations, then completely bomb on others. But it has kept them viable as the smallest of the three companies for decades, and also near the top of the sales list in a few categories most generations. They also have absolutely impeccable Intellectual Property that they have maintained better than Disney, the former gold standard IP protection company.

To bring this point home, for years there was hubub in the industry that Nintendo would bring out some kind of Switch Pro with 4k output and faster guts, rumors swirled around and around until Nintendo finally brought out? The Switch Light. The opposite of that. Nintendo was answering the question "how do we get more people into our world of play?" And a cheaper, less capable, more rugged, system was their answer.

But for Sony, their DNA is "move electronics". So whenever they feel they can, they'll come out with a new revision or update or accessory to hardware they are already pushing. When Sony was pushing new VR headsets, Nintendo put our a toy kit made of cardboard. When Sony was pushing a handheld streaming accessory, Nintendo's system simply undocked. The PS5, which was at the bleeding edge of state of the art consumer electronics is around 4 years old. The Switch is about to be 8 and was basically a cheap tablet with clip on controllers when it was released.

This isn't for the idealized customer the Nintendo is after. This is for people who want the absolute best hooked into their home multimedia system to show it off, which Sony hopes is also a Sony TV, Receiver, Speaker set, and so on.

What Sony may run the risk for is becoming what NEC became. Lots of variations and incremental updates to their system, with different packaging, until they basically just suffocated themselves out of the running -- pursuing a strategy of pushing custom NEC electronics instead of going to where the industry was going. It could happen.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#115
post #112
post #31

This has been such a weird generation of consoles from a price standpoint but I know a lot of that is just due to pricing of things being weird anyways. This is expensive, I am struggling to really justify it at the moment (and I have a 4090 in my PC so it isn't some thoughts about price or power or whatever). Games right now are just not really struggling. Last time around these pro consoles came out we were running…

XBox is in a strange position, there are rumours of a next generation console, but I don't believe it matters. Microsoft has been behaving as if XBox has become an umbrella brand for Microsoft Game Studios, after ABK acquisition. They are going the way of SEGA, regardless how much Phil Spencer says they aren't.

They are in a strange position, but I don't think they are going the way of Sega right now. The market is very different now than it was at that time.

We are applying the status quo as the only possible way to run game consoles when that doesn't have to be true. AMD and Nvidia compete just fine on the merits of their hardware alone without exclusive games.

Even Sony is realizing that they can't only publish on their own consoles. What Microsoft is doing now with Playstation they have already been doing for quite some time already with their games launching day one also on PC.

We also can't ignore that the need for the console is changing with things like xcloud (which runs Xbox hardware on blades, so it gives them incentive to continue making xbox hardware that can both ship as a home console and in blades). xCloud you can even use without any extra hardware (other than a controller) right on your TV with Samsung.

Obviously xCloud isn't going to be the solution for everyone. But we can't apply how things previously worked to how Xbox is trying to just have a different business model. And it isn't anything new with the ABK acquisition. It is continuing what they have already been doing.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#116
post #17
post #5

$700 and it doesn't even come with an optical drive, oof. The optical upgrade kit for the digital-only PS5 Slim is $80, so the Pro is probably going to be closer to $800 in practice unless you're already all-in on digital.

Asking this as a PC gamer who went fully digital ~15 years ago: why are optical drives such a big deal, is that because of buying/selling used games?

The situation for PC gamers is somewhat different than for console gamers. There's certain built in expectations in the market for compatibility across generations, long-term licensing, and free network services that just don't really exist in the console market. As a result it feels like you "own" games more with Steam and other similar services, while on consoles there is a history of closing down stores, and people simply losing access to purchased games.

Physical media gives the impression at least to console gamers that they "own" the game for the long term and the loss of a digital storefront won't impact them (even if it's not always true).

Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#117
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XBox is in a strange position, there are rumours of a next generation console, but I don't believe it matters. Microsoft has been behaving as if XBox has become an umbrella brand for Microsoft Game Studios, after ABK acquisition. They are going the way of SEGA, regardless how much Phil Spencer says they aren't.

They are in a strange position, but I don't think they are going the way of Sega right now. The market is very different now than it was at that time. We are applying the status quo as the only possible way to run game consoles when that doesn't have to be true. AMD and Nvidia compete just fine on the merits of their hardware alone without exclusive games. Even Sony is realizing that they can't only publish on their…

Yeah, however eventually XBox hardware will be a revamped version of Windows Media Center, and that will be as welcomed as XBox ONE original design as multimedia box was.

By the way, Dave Cuttler at the end of his interview on Dave's Garage mentions Microsoft is running XBoxes on Azure with Linux for Microsoft's AI purposes, that is how much they care about XBox hardware and cloud gaming.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#118
post #73

I don't think people commenting here realize how expensive gaming GPUs have become. A top of the line RTX 4090 is upwards of $1700. A mid range card that can play the latest AAA games at a decent resolution and frame rate (say RTX 4070) is $600-700. And if you're building a PC you still need to buy everything else around the card. Yes $700 is expensive for a console, but that's just what the market rate is now.

The base PS5 equivalent GPU is 2070 Super that goes for around 200$

are you seriously suggesting that sony put used pc hardware in their consoles? that's terrible even as a point of comparison.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#119
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are in a strange position, but I don't think they are going the way of Sega right now. The market is very different now than it was at that time. We are applying the status quo as the only possible way to run game consoles when that doesn't have to be true. AMD and Nvidia compete just fine on the merits of their hardware alone without exclusive games. Even Sony is realizing that they can't only publish on their…

Yeah, however eventually XBox hardware will be a revamped version of Windows Media Center, and that will be as welcomed as XBox ONE original design as multimedia box was. By the way, Dave Cuttler at the end of his interview on Dave's Garage mentions Microsoft is running XBoxes on Azure with Linux for Microsoft's AI purposes, that is how much they care about XBox hardware and cloud gaming.

> however eventually XBox hardware will be a revamped version of Windows Media Center, and that will be as welcomed as XBox ONE original design as multimedia box was.

I don't see any indication that they are going down that path. The decisions that made the Xbox One a media center instead of a focus on gaming was made by leaders that are not there. Phil Spensor came in to fix that problem. Nothing they have done recent seems to be pointing in this direction except for doom and gloom speculation about Xbox.

> By the way, Dave Cuttler at the end of his interview on Dave's Garage mentions Microsoft is running XBoxes on Azure with Linux for Microsoft's AI purposes, that is how much they care about XBox hardware and cloud gaming.

I will have to look this up but that doesn't sound like a bad thing? Hardware having multiple purposes just incentivizes the creation of the hardware in the first place. We see this with how Apple is operating right now.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro

#120

$700 and no disc drive? Yikes. I guess it makes sense when compared to the PS4 lineup cost wise, but usually when they launch the slims it drops the price to some degree. Doesn’t seem to be the case here.

I haven't had a disc drive in any of my PC for a decade. I bought a USB DVD reader just in case, it's somewhere collecting dust — I've never used it. Why do you want one in a console?

I can buy PC games from gog.com and get something that will work in 20 years. Consoles don't have an equivalent DRM-free store like that, but discs can achieve that.
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