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How LinkedIn betrayed a 5-man startup

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Re: How LinkedIn betrayed a 5-man startup

#41
post #9

I think one of the messages here is that if you're a start-up and your product requires a third-party API that you have no control over to function then you're taking a massive risk. This isn't specific to Linked.In: API access isn't a right. If your product requires a third-party data source and you don't have any contractual agreement with that third-party you have to accept that the rug could be yanked from under…

But what about all of those software businesses that have built on top of the iOS API + App Store? Would you say that they are also taking a massive risk? Apple can cut off any app that it wants at any time, almost for any reason, and yet thousands of independent developers are building profitable businesses on top of their platform. The issue is not a dependency on an API or platform. The issue is the nature and cha…

It's not that complicated. If you build your company on the back of another company you must abide by their TOS. If your business plan is to build the best porn app on the App Store, you would be similarly disappointed.

In general, if your business plan relies on the goodwill of another company and you provide little value to that company in return, you don't have a very good business plan.

Re: How LinkedIn betrayed a 5-man startup

#42
Business is war. Anyone who doesn't think so hasn't got the enough scars to understand this yet. As a small entity, any time you tangle with large well-funded companies you have to be very aware of the fact that they could shaft you in a dozen different ways whenever the please. That's the hard and cold reality of it.

Contracts and agreements only serve to possibly give you the option to sue, and nothing more. They don't create a guarantee of recovery or reparations in any way at all.

I had one very painful incident with a large Korean multinational corporation a few years ago. This was over a hardware design. We devoted about eight months --nearly a million dollars in cash and man-hours-- to complete a set of designs based on components and assemblies that this OEM was to provide.

They wanted to get our business and pull us away from their main competitor. In-person meetings where had with the top three VP's in the US. Promises were made both verbally and on-paper. Short version: When we were finally ready to go into production we were told that the components in question --components they had recommended and guaranteed as long-availability components-- had been discontinued. Their recommendation: "You need to redesign your product line".

Soon afterwards I learned that other companies that had selected the same components were under the same dire situation. One particular company had closed a deal with the US government and was about to get sued for tens of millions of dollars for not delivering on their contract. On our front, this one event nearly destroyed my company at that time. We survived only to get taken out during the economic downturn due to having been weakened by this event.

In looking at the potential to sue this company our attorneys concluded that they'd need a minimum of $250K just to consider pulling that trigger and another $250K available past that. They expected this multinational to simply bury us with paperwork and an army of lawyers, with the only goal being to cause financial pain and get us to quit. Their recommendation: "Figure out how to survive and lick your wounds. It is nearly impossible to go after these guys and actually come out ahead".

This is how large companies, effectively, make their own rules, their own laws, if you will. While this wasn't the only tangle I've ever had with a large company it was the worst I've had to endure. I was the first domino that got tipped over in a chain of events that ultimately killed a business that I spent the better part of ten years building.

Be careful.

Re: How LinkedIn betrayed a 5-man startup

#43
post #9

I think one of the messages here is that if you're a start-up and your product requires a third-party API that you have no control over to function then you're taking a massive risk. This isn't specific to Linked.In: API access isn't a right. If your product requires a third-party data source and you don't have any contractual agreement with that third-party you have to accept that the rug could be yanked from under…

But what about all of those software businesses that have built on top of the iOS API + App Store? Would you say that they are also taking a massive risk? Apple can cut off any app that it wants at any time, almost for any reason, and yet thousands of independent developers are building profitable businesses on top of their platform. The issue is not a dependency on an API or platform. The issue is the nature and cha…

Businesses that are building their success on the app store are taking a massive risk, yes.

Re: How LinkedIn betrayed a 5-man startup

#44
I completely disagree with other people's attitudes on this point - startups definitely need to be wary of using third party APIs, but it is incumbent upon companies to create clear and stable terms for developers to operate within if they are thinking of opening an API. It's completely unfair to make representations to people that they rely on to their detriment and then renege at the last minute.

Let's be clear too - it's not as if these guys were making a porn application or something that violated LinkedIn's TOS. Nor were they acting without LinkedIn's consent. Companies reserve rights to revoke access without reason in order to limit their legal liability but they need to be wary of the non-legal consequences to their reputation.

This is an unmitigated disaster for LinkedIn. Obviously if it is a professional network, and they as a company already offer a number of solutions to recruiters, companies and professionals, then almost every app made for their platform is going to compete with their own offerings in some way.

If they aren't willing to set clear boundaries in this regard then they simply need to shut down the API and stop wasting everyone's time. In any event, even if they leave it open they can forget about people making a serious investment in the platform.

Re: How LinkedIn betrayed a 5-man startup

#47
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what about all of those software businesses that have built on top of the iOS API + App Store? Would you say that they are also taking a massive risk? Apple can cut off any app that it wants at any time, almost for any reason, and yet thousands of independent developers are building profitable businesses on top of their platform. The issue is not a dependency on an API or platform. The issue is the nature and cha…

It's not that complicated. If you build your company on the back of another company you must abide by their TOS. If your business plan is to build the best porn app on the App Store, you would be similarly disappointed. In general, if your business plan relies on the goodwill of another company and you provide little value to that company in return, you don't have a very good business plan.

I don't think it's enough to rely on the TOS. Sure, there are obvious examples like porn on the iPhone where the TOS will give you a clear answer. Frequently, however, the TOS are ambiguous and are interpreted inconsistently. They can also be changed at will.

Sure, you're right that developers should try to give as much benefit back to their platform provider as they derive from the platform. But the fact is that different companies perceive benefit in different ways with reasoning that is opaque. Often a decision can depend on a strategic direction for the firm that you are not privy to.

All this is why the reputation of the company matters so much. From reading the article, it looks like LinkedIn not only acted in a very inconsistent manner--giving praise before shutting them down--but they even began reverse-engineering the application. That's not the kind of behavior that breeds a healthy ecosystem regardless of whether they have all the right to act that way, and regardless of whether Pealk was careless in relying so heavily on LinkedIn.

If everyone were to take a cautious approach to the APIs and platforms that big companies offer, as has been suggested in this thread, then the tech sector would be a much less interesting place. The fact is that a lot of innovation happens because there actually are API and platform providers out there that care about their developers and won't pull shit like this.

Re: How LinkedIn betrayed a 5-man startup

#48
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that complicated. If you build your company on the back of another company you must abide by their TOS. If your business plan is to build the best porn app on the App Store, you would be similarly disappointed. In general, if your business plan relies on the goodwill of another company and you provide little value to that company in return, you don't have a very good business plan.

I don't think it's enough to rely on the TOS. Sure, there are obvious examples like porn on the iPhone where the TOS will give you a clear answer. Frequently, however, the TOS are ambiguous and are interpreted inconsistently. They can also be changed at will. Sure, you're right that developers should try to give as much benefit back to their platform provider as they derive from the platform. But the fact is that dif…

You're complicating something that isn't that complicated. LinkedIn's TOS very clearly states in the terms that it is illegal to "Use the APIs in an Application that competes with products or services offered by us"

So when you see:

http://talent.linkedin.com/Recruiter

And your site is using the API to create a service for recruiters, it seems crystal clear to me that you are violating the LinkedIn TOS. This is not some grey area or some arbitrary changing of the rules - it is a very clear violation of LinkedIn API guidelines. I just don't see how this proves even a little bit that LinkedIn doesn't "care about their developers".

And for the bigger picture, it is amazing to me that a significant number of people expect LinkedIn to sit around while some other company attempts to undercut LinkedIn's own premium product using LinkedIn's API.

Re: How LinkedIn betrayed a 5-man startup

#49
post #9

I think one of the messages here is that if you're a start-up and your product requires a third-party API that you have no control over to function then you're taking a massive risk. This isn't specific to Linked.In: API access isn't a right. If your product requires a third-party data source and you don't have any contractual agreement with that third-party you have to accept that the rug could be yanked from under…

But what about all of those software businesses that have built on top of the iOS API + App Store? Would you say that they are also taking a massive risk? Apple can cut off any app that it wants at any time, almost for any reason, and yet thousands of independent developers are building profitable businesses on top of their platform. The issue is not a dependency on an API or platform. The issue is the nature and cha…

>But what about all of those software businesses that have built on top of the iOS API + App Store? Would you say that they are also taking a massive risk?

Yes. If Apple wants to offer a product with similar functionality to yours they can make your disappear. Sharecropping is inherently risky.

Re: How LinkedIn betrayed a 5-man startup

#50
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this context, LinkedIn owes them respect and honesty. Bait and switching is crappy behaviour.

Why? They were abusing LinkedIn's service by competing with them. LinkedIn took the time to speak with them, evaluate the situation, and then make an informed decision about whether they wanted to support their appropriation of LinkedIn's data.

It's crappy human behavior, which is not to say 'bad business practice', to pretend to work with someone and support their efforts for 2 months, and then summarily shut down their business simply because LinkedIn made an 'informed decision' that 'we don't owe you anything.'

Let's not confuse the fact that, although businesses certainly have a right to defend their own interests any way they see fit within the law, that has absolutely no bearing on whether or not the community they conduct business in will call them out when they act in a basically unkind or deceptive manner.

The former has to do with business, fine print and the dog-eat-dog, watch-your-back world of modern commerce. The latter has to do with basic human decency, trust and the goodwill of the community you do business in.

"It's just business" is all well and good, but don't get butt-hurt when the community that you work with looks at your behavior and says, "it sucks that you did it that way." That's just the cost of "doing business," right? Suck it up and take it.

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