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Apple must pay 13B euros in back taxes, EU's top court rules

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Re: Apple must pay 13B euros in back taxes, EU's top court rules

#21

Post by Y-bar »

matthewmorgan wrote: post #11
Nursie wrote: post #4

Good. Not because I particularly dilike Apple or big US tech firms (I have a whole bunch of Apple stuff right here), but because Ireland has been able to undermine the tax regime of the whole EU, by giving these sweetheart tax deals to big firms, who can then run their entire EU business from there. This gives an unfair tax advantage to the multinationals over homegrown EU companies, skewing the market. Is it Apple's…

What about Luxembourg?

Which secret sweetheart deals does Luxembourg have?

The secrecy and exclusivity were central to the judgement. The EU requires a level playing field for all companies, which is why individual governments striking secret tax deals not available to all companies are seen as an illegal thing.

I bet if Ireland had opened the same tax deal they did to Apple, to all companies this would not even have been a matter for the courts.

Re: Apple must pay 13B euros in back taxes, EU's top court rules

#22

Post by Etheryte »

xbmcuser wrote: post #16
Etheryte wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, agreed, Apple is simply doing what any corporation does, trying to do business as profitably as possible. The only tar bucket you should be having handy is for Ireland for trying to screw over the whole rest of EU.

Why do you give Apple the leeway to do what a company has to and not Ireland to do what a country has to succeed that's very hypocritical of you.

Because Ireland has joined the EU and knowingly chosen to participate in treaties pertaining to the shared market. If Ireland wanted to leave the EU then it would be free to do so, then it can cut Apple all the tax breaks it wants. However as is, Ireland is trying to please two masters at the same time and the court cases seem pretty clear about how that is going for them.

Re: Apple must pay 13B euros in back taxes, EU's top court rules

#23

Post by techpression »

tomschwiha wrote: post #13
techpression wrote: post #5

Why is it Apple that has to pay for what Ireland did wrong? Genuinely curious here, it's not like Ireland is some random dude on the internet selling stolen goods and Apple should've known better.

I guess it's within the power of legislation that the wrongly calculated taxes are now corrected.

Sure, but Ireland doesn’t get the money, the EU does, so it’s not actually correcting the taxes but rather redistribute them, which seems like a bit of totalitarian approach to regulation. Ireland did not want the money back.

Re: Apple must pay 13B euros in back taxes, EU's top court rules

#25

Post by anonymous344 »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #14
Nursie wrote: post #4

Good. Not because I particularly dilike Apple or big US tech firms (I have a whole bunch of Apple stuff right here), but because Ireland has been able to undermine the tax regime of the whole EU, by giving these sweetheart tax deals to big firms, who can then run their entire EU business from there. This gives an unfair tax advantage to the multinationals over homegrown EU companies, skewing the market. Is it Apple's…

Surely an EU company, if big enough, could have moved to Ireland and negotiated a similar deal. I understand that the issue here is the nature of the deal with a specific company, but the EU does not want member states to have too much leeway to cut taxes in any case. They have set minima for corporation tax and VAT, for instance. Ultimately this is a question of competitive advantage and of ways for small, peripheri…

us is falling apart did u see how much they printed usd? the pay gap, vanishing middle-class, stealing resources from all over planet..

Re: Apple must pay 13B euros in back taxes, EU's top court rules

#26

Post by whacko_quacko »

xbmcuser wrote: post #16
Etheryte wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, agreed, Apple is simply doing what any corporation does, trying to do business as profitably as possible. The only tar bucket you should be having handy is for Ireland for trying to screw over the whole rest of EU.

Why do you give Apple the leeway to do what a company has to and not Ireland to do what a country has to succeed that's very hypocritical of you.

It's not, because Ireland chose to be part of the EU which its actions are undermining. Also, we accept the fact that in capitalism companies have the goal to maximize profit, but the purpose of a country is not to maximize tax income compared to others

Re: Apple must pay 13B euros in back taxes, EU's top court rules

#27

Post by HPsquared »

librasteve wrote: post #12

prior to brexit, the UK lost a ton of US inward direct investment to Eire … Dell, Intel, Apple etc. the factors were Eire corporation tax was low and public policy was to footdrag in the attempts to set an EU minimum tax, fantastic lobbying by Irish representatives in Washington leveraging the big Irish diaspora, big subsidies that walked to the edge of the EU rules (as seen here), and an English speaking workforce w…

The UK government seems intent on getting the "worst of both worlds" out of every single issue.

Re: Apple must pay 13B euros in back taxes, EU's top court rules

#28

Post by scandox »

techpression wrote: post #23
tomschwiha wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's within the power of legislation that the wrongly calculated taxes are now corrected.

Sure, but Ireland doesn’t get the money, the EU does, so it’s not actually correcting the taxes but rather redistribute them, which seems like a bit of totalitarian approach to regulation. Ireland did not want the money back.

Ireland gets the money. The EU is making Apple pay us. And yes we didn't want it - mainly for reputational reasons and partly because our argument was "we never done it".

Re: Apple must pay 13B euros in back taxes, EU's top court rules

#29

Post by zoobab »

matthewmorgan wrote: post #11
Nursie wrote: post #4

Good. Not because I particularly dilike Apple or big US tech firms (I have a whole bunch of Apple stuff right here), but because Ireland has been able to undermine the tax regime of the whole EU, by giving these sweetheart tax deals to big firms, who can then run their entire EU business from there. This gives an unfair tax advantage to the multinationals over homegrown EU companies, skewing the market. Is it Apple's…

What about Luxembourg?

Belgium has also only 3.75% tax rate on patent royalties:

https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/eu/patent-box-regimes-eur...

In Luxembourg, it's higher at 5%.

I remember Netherlands had 0% at some point, but they might have changed it.

In any case, multinational corporations pay peanuts in taxes using that scheme.

Re: Apple must pay 13B euros in back taxes, EU's top court rules

#30

Post by nsajko »

Laaas wrote: post #3

It seems that Ireland giving aid specific to Apple and not others is the crux of the issue? Not sure how that’s illegal.

Ireland giving special benefits to a private company like Apple conflicts with the principles of a free and fair market.
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