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How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

empirical.health

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Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#131

Post by BoiledCabbage »

ugh123 wrote: post #127
smaudet wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other side, as a consumer, I don't really want "new/disruptive competition" - I want stability and a legal guarantee my rights aren't being trod all over. Large companies e.g. Google/Apple are just inherently untrustworthy in this regards, smaller overseas ones are no better (little to no regulation). So please, no, stay the ** out of my health, thanks.

So you're cool with the pace of innovation and value-per-cost that existing medical companies provide?

Is the alternative the way that Meta and Google treat privacy, or most tech companies treat security? Then sure as rain I am.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#132

Post by lathiat »

rootusrootus wrote: post #84
runjake wrote: post #22

I'm not an qualified expert, but I spend a lot of time reading about and using this stuff and I'm extremely skeptical sleep apnea detection is very accurate without the pulse oximeter functionality. But gosh, I hope this is accurate across the Watch's wide user base. I wouldn't say it's likely, but I do wonder if the pulse oximeter is being used surreptitiously. In any case, if you could use the pulse oximeter, this…

IIRC the pulse oximeter isn't all that useful for sleep apnea detection anyway, because on the watch it does not run continuously. Just takes measurements every X minutes. I think the oxygen level drop happens on a short enough timescale that you need the continuous monitoring to pick up on it.

The watch can ramp the detection up for periods of time if it chooses, such as when doing a workout. But also, people with sleep apnoea tend to have their O2 trend low not just go briefly low.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#133

Post by jrockway »

tptacek wrote: post #41
jrockway wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At-home sleep studies measure heart rate (maybe ekg, some probe is on your skin), blood oxygen, sound, and the direction of gravity relative to your testing device (to classify results by "back", "side", "prone", etc.) I did one of these and it was the worst night of sleep I ever had. It's somewhat invasive. Meanwhile, I sleep with my watch every night with no problems.

Interesting. I keep meaning to get one done. Probes don't seem like that big a deal?

They really clamp your finger in the pulse oximeter probe, and it's taped with one-time-use adhesive. So there is no taking it out when it hurts, you just have to live with it and try to sleep. The instructions say "it's not that bad, you'll be fine".

I got some sleep.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#134

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

lysace wrote: post #8

The gatekeeping in the CPAP field is so insane. 1. Yes, we should regulate manufacturers intensely. 2. No, we shouldn't regulate to whom companies should be allowed to sell them. The defaults are good enough for most. Provide an easy to use control for max pressure and people will figure it out. Perhaps a knob? I claim: During the past decade, the risk of being maltreated by a personally set-up CPAP unit has been far…

In other countries you can buy a top of the line automatic self configuring APAP off the shelf. Here you have to pay (through insurance) thousands for a sleep study that is completely useless, since you can just have your machine figure out the right pressure. The cost, the delay in treatment from inconvenience, and the repeated burden of prescriptions every year is an insane government enforced protectionism of otherwise useless “doctors” and companies with no innovation.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#135

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

smaudet wrote: post #42
a_vanderbilt wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The health industry as a whole is insane. I support the use of regulation and law where it ensures safety and efficacy but in the U.S. it's currently a patent and legal minefield. So much of it comes directly from special interests who want gatekeeping to keep out new/disruptive competition.

On the other side, as a consumer, I don't really want "new/disruptive competition" - I want stability and a legal guarantee my rights aren't being trod all over. Large companies e.g. Google/Apple are just inherently untrustworthy in this regards, smaller overseas ones are no better (little to no regulation). So please, no, stay the ** out of my health, thanks.

Stability doesn’t always help. For example Phillips had to recall their latest CPAP machines because of disintegrating foam that patients potentially inhaled all night for months, with unknown long term health effects. Who can trust big companies that avoid scrutiny and accountability just due to their size and power?

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#136

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

bluGill wrote: post #94
titusjohnson wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd be fine with it being something as simple as the local pharmacy can keep them in the back and you bring in the prescription from the doctor Just curious, why do you think a Dr. should be involved at all?

You should have a Dr who keeps track of all your medical information. I want my doctor to know each time I take an Aspirin or put on a bandage. Most of the time those are meaningless activities (and I don't tell my doctor), but once in a while there is something more going on and I need to be forced into the ER.

My experience is that doctors don’t even care about the data they have now. There are a lot of charts and info already available digitally to them and they mostly skim things and make basic diagnoses that are unhelpful and obvious. I keep finding myself in the position of pointing at them at things in the data to get better care. I think doctors are mostly a tax, and a barrier. At least primary care. Specialists also need to be managed in the same way though, and even in an ER situation I’ve seen them be very casual in their understanding of complex situations.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#137

Post by mbirth »

dave333 wrote: post #102

Amazing that you can get much the same functionality in a off brand $30 watch these days - at least monitors sleep and blood oxygen - although it explicitly does not do medical diagnosis. Still every senior should have one for many reasons.

I’d be VERY careful with those. There are cheap Chinese “smart watches” that simply show fake values for SpO2. People have put them on bananas and the watch still “took a reading” and showed oxygen saturation to be “95-100%”. With these watches, the LEDs at the bottom flicker, but there’s no sensor to take an actual reading.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#138

Post by wkat4242 »

lysace wrote: post #8

The gatekeeping in the CPAP field is so insane. 1. Yes, we should regulate manufacturers intensely. 2. No, we shouldn't regulate to whom companies should be allowed to sell them. The defaults are good enough for most. Provide an easy to use control for max pressure and people will figure it out. Perhaps a knob? I claim: During the past decade, the risk of being maltreated by a personally set-up CPAP unit has been far…

Yes it took me so much time and money to get diagnosed. I wish I could just have been able to buy my cpap.

I often change the setting myself, it's just a hidden key combo anyway.

Really helps great against snoring too. And the max pressure is 20mm h2o which is really not a lot.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#139

Post by wkat4242 »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #135
smaudet wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other side, as a consumer, I don't really want "new/disruptive competition" - I want stability and a legal guarantee my rights aren't being trod all over. Large companies e.g. Google/Apple are just inherently untrustworthy in this regards, smaller overseas ones are no better (little to no regulation). So please, no, stay the ** out of my health, thanks.

Stability doesn’t always help. For example Phillips had to recall their latest CPAP machines because of disintegrating foam that patients potentially inhaled all night for months, with unknown long term health effects. Who can trust big companies that avoid scrutiny and accountability just due to their size and power?

Yeah I have two of those machines that i bought myself (with prescription).

It's been 4 years and Phillips has yet to replace them. They also don't answer any kind of contact about it. I'm glad the local authority gave me a resmed but I still want those Phillipses replaced.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#140

Post by wkat4242 »

jrockway wrote: post #23
lysace wrote: post #8

The gatekeeping in the CPAP field is so insane. 1. Yes, we should regulate manufacturers intensely. 2. No, we shouldn't regulate to whom companies should be allowed to sell them. The defaults are good enough for most. Provide an easy to use control for max pressure and people will figure it out. Perhaps a knob? I claim: During the past decade, the risk of being maltreated by a personally set-up CPAP unit has been far…

I'm just happy that the "service mode" screens are easy to get to. Changing the ramp-up from 10 minutes to 45 minutes made a big difference for me. (I'm honestly surprised someone doesn't make the vendors require a 1000 character passphrase that locks you out of the device after 2 failed attempts.)

Oh i turned the ramp off altogether. I really hate the ramping because the pressure is too low at first
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