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How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

empirical.health

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Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#111

Post by rootusrootus »

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #86
rootusrootus wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> these seem like pretty obvious application of machine learning algorithms, don't you think? Anecdotally, my impression is that most CPAP users are using APAPs at this point, like the very popular Resmed AirSense 10. Titration amounts to giving it a pretty wide range and letting the machine itself figure out the right pressure. It's not a complex learning algorithm, but seems to do the job.

I think APAP's are more about comfort and less about effectiveness, although making them more comfortable to use does make them more effective. The algorithm is more about detecting that you aren't asleep and thus don't need the full pressure at the moment and less about altering the target pressure setting on the fly. I could be wrong though, I use is a bipap which works a bit differently than CPAP or APAP.

I have personal experience with the Airsense 10 and it doesn't detect sleep/awake, as far as I can tell. At least not for me; it starts at low pressure, ramps up over a set time to the bottom of the range, and then adjusts as necessary. Low flow or an apnea event will get it to increase the pressure. Sometimes if you are breathing kinda slow lying there awake you can trip it up and feel it start pulsing the pressure to get more air moving.

To my understanding (no personal experience), Philips APAPs have a different algorithm to try and achieve the same goal, and are regarded as less aggressive about it than Resmed.

There's also a new Resmed Airsense 11 out but I don't know anything about it and what changed.

BiPAPs are definitely a different beast, for sure. My dad used one of those. Not automatic at all, right? Constant pressure, but different between inhale and exhale?

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#112

Post by emporas »

dave333 wrote: post #110
emporas wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sleep apnea is very easily fixed. You have to increase blood pressure on the head by a lot, for a little bit of time each day, half an hour to an hour and it is 100% fixable. Additionaly increasing blood pressure on the head helps for sleeping more. I do that and sleep for an average of 10 hours a day. 12 hours or 14 hours/day of sleep for me, is not rare either. Also increasing the blood pressure on the head helps f…

Raising the foot end of the bed eg with a few thick books under the mattress is supposed to give health benefits by stopping the blood pooling in the lower legs where DVT blood clots most likely occur. Wondering if it also benefits by increasing blood pressure in the head?

Yep, exactly that, or similar. Use gravity to pull blood towards the head. It's not rocket science, although if you want to do that on space, you may need to learn a little bit of rocket science.

In space that's the default situation. The heart pulses maniacally to keep blood circulating all around, but in no gravity places the legs are a pretty small organ, they don't need that much blood. So in space, a lot of blood ends up on the head. We can simulate that on earth for half an hour/day and it has numerous benefits.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#113

Post by s5300 »

bluGill wrote: post #94
titusjohnson wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd be fine with it being something as simple as the local pharmacy can keep them in the back and you bring in the prescription from the doctor Just curious, why do you think a Dr. should be involved at all?

You should have a Dr who keeps track of all your medical information. I want my doctor to know each time I take an Aspirin or put on a bandage. Most of the time those are meaningless activities (and I don't tell my doctor), but once in a while there is something more going on and I need to be forced into the ER.

[dead]

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#114

Post by brandonb »

eh_why_not wrote: post #107
brandonb wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(OP here) a third category: downstream complications of sleep apnea, primarily car crashes and heart attacks. Diagnosing and treating people with undiagnosed sleep apnea would prevent these entirely, which is obviously much healthier for the person and reduces medical cost for the entire system (including the patient themselves for co-pays, taxpayers for government costs, etc).

Thanks, I think it would be informative if you put this spelling out in the article. People like myself not immersed in health fields won't immediately know what you mean without it.

Just updated the article to spell that out. Thanks for the feedback!

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#115

Post by code_biologist »

vlachen wrote: post #63
breck wrote: post #32

If you're interested in this, I'd recommend reading the 1870 [public domain] book "Shut Your Mouth and Save your Life". Internet Archive has it: https://archive.org/details/b28114450 Also look into "mouth taping".

I don't mouth-tape, and I use a CPAP. However, since I prefer the nasal cushion type, I did run into issues with my partner regarding my mouth falling open and horrible "pumping air through your sinuses" noises emanating from my face hole. Instead of spending more from the home health shop, I just grabbed headband that came in some past 5K race bag, and I strap it around my head prior to the CPAP head gear. In my par…

Sleepy me tends to rip off things like headbands.

I have a beard and use GrifGrips sports tape to mouth tape. I've found the level of adhesiveness to be a perfect balance of strength and removability. Not the cheapest, but quality stuff.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#116

Post by BaculumMeumEst »

emporas wrote: post #109
dave333 wrote: post #102

Amazing that you can get much the same functionality in a off brand $30 watch these days - at least monitors sleep and blood oxygen - although it explicitly does not do medical diagnosis. Still every senior should have one for many reasons.

Sleep apnea is very easily fixed. You have to increase blood pressure on the head by a lot, for a little bit of time each day, half an hour to an hour and it is 100% fixable. Additionaly increasing blood pressure on the head helps for sleeping more. I do that and sleep for an average of 10 hours a day. 12 hours or 14 hours/day of sleep for me, is not rare either. Also increasing the blood pressure on the head helps f…

Wut? Never heard of this. How are you increasing blood pressure on your head? Are you hanging upside down?

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#117

Post by pohuing »

BeetleB wrote: post #69
lysace wrote: post #8

The gatekeeping in the CPAP field is so insane. 1. Yes, we should regulate manufacturers intensely. 2. No, we shouldn't regulate to whom companies should be allowed to sell them. The defaults are good enough for most. Provide an easy to use control for max pressure and people will figure it out. Perhaps a knob? I claim: During the past decade, the risk of being maltreated by a personally set-up CPAP unit has been far…

> During the past decade, the risk of being maltreated by a personally set-up CPAP unit has been far, far smaller than the risk of not being treated at all. There have been over 500 confirmed deaths due to the Philips CPAP. The number of unconfirmed deaths would be an order of magnitude higher, in my opinion. Thing is, the CPAP issue could be argued for both sides: "See how a small manufacturing defect could cause so…

Isn't that the one that disintegrated into your lungs during normal usage?

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#118

Post by krisoft »

bluGill wrote: post #94
titusjohnson wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd be fine with it being something as simple as the local pharmacy can keep them in the back and you bring in the prescription from the doctor Just curious, why do you think a Dr. should be involved at all?

You should have a Dr who keeps track of all your medical information. I want my doctor to know each time I take an Aspirin or put on a bandage. Most of the time those are meaningless activities (and I don't tell my doctor), but once in a while there is something more going on and I need to be forced into the ER.

> I want my doctor to know each time I take an Aspirin or put on a bandage.

What do you think your doctor will do based on this data? How do you think your doctor will filter out the signal from all the noise? (Is there even a signal?)

> but once in a while there is something more going on and I need to be forced into the ER.

Do you have a concrete example here?

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#119

Post by emporas »

BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #116
emporas wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sleep apnea is very easily fixed. You have to increase blood pressure on the head by a lot, for a little bit of time each day, half an hour to an hour and it is 100% fixable. Additionaly increasing blood pressure on the head helps for sleeping more. I do that and sleep for an average of 10 hours a day. 12 hours or 14 hours/day of sleep for me, is not rare either. Also increasing the blood pressure on the head helps f…

Wut? Never heard of this. How are you increasing blood pressure on your head? Are you hanging upside down?

>Are you hanging upside down?

No, but that was a popular torture fathers did to kids some decades back. I know several people, all men, whom their fathers tied the legs to a rope and hung them upside down for some hours, when they were boys. Pretty funny!

Much simpler actually. Just hung your head lower than your body, from a bed, a sofa, or even a motorcycle as much as you can, 10 minutes or half an hour.

It is a good idea to exercise at the same time, your strongest muscle on your body, your jaw muscle, by chewing imaginary leaves. That will help blood to flow on the head much quicker, and much more of it as well.

Back when we were monkeys, we chewed a lot of leaves. According to my estimations, we moved our jaw up and down, more than 10.000 times per day. That helped move blood up, towards the head, while nowadays we chew 100 times per day.

Re: How on-the-wrist sleep apnea detection works

#120

Post by [deleted] »

lysace wrote: post #8

The gatekeeping in the CPAP field is so insane. 1. Yes, we should regulate manufacturers intensely. 2. No, we shouldn't regulate to whom companies should be allowed to sell them. The defaults are good enough for most. Provide an easy to use control for max pressure and people will figure it out. Perhaps a knob? I claim: During the past decade, the risk of being maltreated by a personally set-up CPAP unit has been far…

[deleted]
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