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How Rent Control Drives Out Affordable Housing

cato.org

51–60 of 189 posts

Re: How Rent Control Drives Out Affordable Housing

#51
post #33
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely. Unfortunately the outcome is normally very different when the market has to route around it. Rent control here in SF only affects people in older buildings. One of many unintended consequences of this is the ridiculous state of Tenderloin. Back in Denmark where I own an apartment, rent control forces me to only be able to rent it out as a corporate apartment to foreigners. The official rent would…

> Let Richard Branson or any other smart entrepreneur at the health system without the handicap of social engineering and it would be fixed within a year. Where "fixed" means that unprofitable/poor people die of or are crippled by easily and cheaply treatable diseases. That's what a pure market solution would do. Once you start including those people, it's "social engineering".

Health care is no different than any other service. If you are able to increase the availability as well as lower the price it helps everyone. Including the poor.

Re: How Rent Control Drives Out Affordable Housing

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent stabilization in NYC isn't mandatory for new construction, so new buildup being condos is not a response to rent control (unless it's a response to the threat of future rent control). Also, you'll need to explain how "sky high rents + abandoned buildings" corresponds to "Why renovate when you can't charge rents commensurately?" - if landlords can't charge rents commensurately, where are the sky high rents coming…

"Rent stabilization in NYC isn't mandatory for new construction," In NYC, future crazy regulations are always a worry. Most new construction IS rent controlled. My previous apartment (built to be condos, but the owner was unable to sell) was. To evade various ridiculous NYC taxes (which make a lot of new construction unviable), you need to submit to rent control. "if landlords can't charge rents commensurately, where…

"To evade various ridiculous NYC taxes (which make a lot of new construction unviable), you need to submit to rent control."

Agreeing to not displace people to cash in on temporary market swings seems like a better tax shelter than some others I've heard of.

"Sky high rents come from current demand. Rent control provides a disincentive to long term investments like new construction or major renovations to rental buildings."

This doesn't make any sense. Without the current rent-control laws, the incentive would be to keep the housing supply low and spike rental rates. New construction would still be difficult (because it's NYC), plus current owners would spend their political capital on preventing it from happening to keep their incomes up.

"Incidentally, neither of the 'things that bother you about the free market religion' are actually part of the free market ideology. 1) only applies to efficient markets (like the rental market, with many buyers and sellers, and good information) and 2) is closer to the Clinton/Bush/Dodd/Obama ideology that ownership is something to encourage."

Maybe I should be more clear, my fault. My first point has less to do with pricing efficiency than with the basic idea that certain things with value can be priced at all (a person's contribution to the appeal of a neighborhood, for instance). My second point was that there are other kinds of risk (living in a bad neighborhood for its cheap rent) that should be rewarded by society over ownership (the windfall that the owner of a slum stumbles into as the neighborhood appreciates in value).

"In some cases the people are completely unrelated."

Of course, I never implied otherwise. My next sentence after the one you quoted was that I wouldn't claim such a thing. As for Harlem, I was almost going to use that to illustrate my point. Prices there are a lot cheaper there right now than the location would suggest they should be, and (despite your experience) tons of people are starting to look that way. Assuming living in the city stays cool, do you really think it's going to be as cheap as it is today in five years? And everyone who's moving there right now, who are going to make it that super-desirable place to live? They'll be priced out (see: SoHo, parts of Brooklyn, Hell's Kitchen, etc., etc).

"As far as who "deserves" to live on some place, it's a wash. So lets not favor any particular group over the other."

I disagree, let's favor the particular group that was already there, that's already established the place as their home.

"As far as emotional appeals go, I'm not casting any group of people as assholes."

Really? I've got some rental agencies to introduce you to.

Re: How Rent Control Drives Out Affordable Housing

#53
post #51
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let Richard Branson or any other smart entrepreneur at the health system without the handicap of social engineering and it would be fixed within a year. Where "fixed" means that unprofitable/poor people die of or are crippled by easily and cheaply treatable diseases. That's what a pure market solution would do. Once you start including those people, it's "social engineering".

Health care is no different than any other service. If you are able to increase the availability as well as lower the price it helps everyone. Including the poor.

There's always going to be a cutoff point, though, where people are unprofitable. Introducing some market oriented reforms might improve things, but you simply can't get around the fact that in a purely profit-oriented system, some people are not worth the money it would cost to save their lives or reduce their suffering.

There are plenty of products where the market drives prices down, but doesn't make them free or available to everyone, and in most cases that's just fine. Some people and some societies take the view that in some way or another, things like food, shelter, and yes, at least basic health care ought to be available to everyone, even if it is not profitable. That's "social engineering".

Re: How Rent Control Drives Out Affordable Housing

#54
post #51
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let Richard Branson or any other smart entrepreneur at the health system without the handicap of social engineering and it would be fixed within a year. Where "fixed" means that unprofitable/poor people die of or are crippled by easily and cheaply treatable diseases. That's what a pure market solution would do. Once you start including those people, it's "social engineering".

Health care is no different than any other service. If you are able to increase the availability as well as lower the price it helps everyone. Including the poor.

Health is very different from other services, profit should not be the goal. Business does not attempt to help people, but to maximize profit, which does not necessarily mean increasing availability or lowering prices at all. It might be more profitable to dump the lower income people and jack up the prices on those who can afford it.

Unlike other industries, getting service is often a literal life or death issue, you have to pay or you might die; morally this makes health care very different from other industries.

Re: How Rent Control Drives Out Affordable Housing

#55
post #35
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Import tariffs and subsidies are direct market manipulation, and the market doesn't really route around them. Rather, they tend to wreck markets, which is one reason many developing countries continue to press the US and Europe to end farm subsidies - it's wrecking their export markets and hurting their farmers. Governments, when they want to, are perfectly capable of interfering with markets and even destroying them…

Tarrifs are actually a particularly good example of markets routing around government interference. Routing around tariffs is called smuggling, and has been a huge business as long as there have been governments. I wasn't claiming, incidentally, that markets were totally immune to government interference-- just as networks are not immune to damage. Just that markets will always find whatever room you give them.

I'd bet that smuggling is a tiny trickle compared to what the market could provide with many commodities (wheat, cotton, corn, stuff like that, not diamonds and rhino horns), meaning that the market is not effectively routing around it at all.

Re: How Rent Control Drives Out Affordable Housing

#56
post #9
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Examples of how Cato has been discredited?

Cato tends to be a little simplistic in their models. For example, with immigration they say it has no ill effects. Well, in the long-run I'd probably agree with them (save for the fact that natural resources are being split among more people which I think would be made up for in other ways that they cite). In the short term, it takes time for economies to adapt to changing tastes, changing spending patterns, essenti…

Immigration: I don't think you really disagree with Cato. Arguing that immigration restrictions should be eliminated does not necessarily entail that one believes the restrictions should be lifted all at once.

Rent Control: Rent control causes higher prices for everyone except those who happen to have a rent-controlled apartment, because it discourages improvement of existing properties and discourages building new properties. It also encourages over-buying. Someone may pay $2000/month for a 3 bedroom apartment that has been rent controlled since the 1970s, but only use 1 of the bedrooms. That person could find a 1BR apartment within budget w/o rent control, and someone (maybe 3 room-mates paying $1500 each) could share the 3BR place. Overall this is a more efficient distribution of resources, the benefit of which occurs immediately. I don't really feel sorry for someone getting a huge apartment for way below market price.

Interest Rates: I'm not sure I understand what you mean, since interest rates vary based on unpredictable Fed action and unpredictable market forces all the time. Banks (lenders) hedge against this by buying/selling instruments to even out their Fed risk and by buying insurance to hedge against many of the other risks.

American Auto Industry: What makes you think there would be a chaotic "all at once" situation? That is part of the fearmongering on the part of the firms seeking rents (and the politicians they have bought). Recall how Dubya told everyone that if the US didn't invade Iraq there was an "imminent threat to US national security"? The automakers used that exact strategy to obtain a bailout.

Stability is an interesting concept. It's the essence of "conservatism", wanting to preserve the status quo. Marx warned about this in his manifesto. Anyone who has managed to get a leg up will fight to preserve it at the expense of productive change.

In today's world, this includes the people who thought they were investment geniuses because the value of their home increased 40% the year after they bought it, it includes the overpaid workers who convince themselves that a hard working person immigrating to the US is somehow unamerican, it also includes the politicians who enjoy the huge donations they have been getting from the financial services industry and don't want to see endangered.

So if you put aside the "I want to keep my small advantage at all cost" conservatism, and you do away with the Bush-style fearmongering about imminent threats to "stability", what you find is that the world really isn't all that scary, and often times the meddling that is done to try to prevent "instability" actually does far more harm than good. The Iraq war is a case in point.

Note that "stability in the middle east" is the motto of those who want to go and turn it upside down with bombs and nation building! The same applies to domestic policy.

Re: How Rent Control Drives Out Affordable Housing

#57
post #25
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Examples of how Cato has been discredited?

Oh my. Two minutes of web search: http://www.accuracy.org/article.php?articleId=51 http://www.cato-unbound.org/2008/11/12/matthew-yglesias/poli... http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2006/05/cato-hypocrisy.html http://www.socsec.org/publications.asp?pubid=325 http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/200207/thinktank.asp http://www.acsh.org/publications/pubID.498/pub_detail.asp http://www.no-smoke.org/pdf/catoinstitute.pdf http://w…

How does opposing the automotive bailout and the financial bailout constitute being a shill for big business? I'd say it's quite the opposite!

Re: How Rent Control Drives Out Affordable Housing

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Rent stabilization in NYC isn't mandatory for new construction," In NYC, future crazy regulations are always a worry. Most new construction IS rent controlled. My previous apartment (built to be condos, but the owner was unable to sell) was. To evade various ridiculous NYC taxes (which make a lot of new construction unviable), you need to submit to rent control. "if landlords can't charge rents commensurately, where…

"To evade various ridiculous NYC taxes (which make a lot of new construction unviable), you need to submit to rent control." Agreeing to not displace people to cash in on temporary market swings seems like a better tax shelter than some others I've heard of. "Sky high rents come from current demand. Rent control provides a disincentive to long term investments like new construction or major renovations to rental buil…

"This doesn't make any sense. Without the current rent-control laws, the incentive would be to keep the housing supply low and spike rental rates."

Only if there were a monopolistic housing provider. Absent rent control, the incentive for any individual housing supplier would be to build more houses and cash in.

By your logic, dell should (in the absence of computer-price control laws) cut back on computer production to spike prices. Of course, that's ridiculous; HP, Asus, Everex and others will pick up the slack and Dell will lose money.

As for other landlords engaging in rent seeking, that's a problem, but a separate one.

"My second point was that there are other kinds of risk (living in a bad neighborhood for its cheap rent) that should be rewarded by society over ownership (the windfall that the owner of a slum stumbles into as the neighborhood appreciates in value)."

Living in a bad neighborhood is rewarded; the reward is cheap rent.

"Prices there are a lot cheaper there right now than the location would suggest they should be, and (despite your experience) tons of people are starting to look that way."

Prices are a lot cheaper than they should be precisely because newcomers don't want to live near Harlem natives. High prices elsewhere are driving people here, but the locals are not helping things. As an example of the issues, several of my female visitors have been hassled on their way home. So if you argue for subsidizing hip locals who make a neighborhood attractive, do you also want to penalize disagreeable locals? If not, why not?

Re: How Rent Control Drives Out Affordable Housing

#59
post #25
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Examples of how Cato has been discredited?

Oh my. Two minutes of web search: http://www.accuracy.org/article.php?articleId=51 http://www.cato-unbound.org/2008/11/12/matthew-yglesias/poli... http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2006/05/cato-hypocrisy.html http://www.socsec.org/publications.asp?pubid=325 http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/200207/thinktank.asp http://www.acsh.org/publications/pubID.498/pub_detail.asp http://www.no-smoke.org/pdf/catoinstitute.pdf http://w…

Their defense of the tobacco industry has always been centered around the rights of the individual. Just because Phillip Morris pays a few dollars to keep the institute running does not mean Cato's arguments are unfounded. All think tanks have financial backing from some faction or another, and (surprise!) it's usually the people who agree with the think tank's point of view.

Just because a think tank accepts money does not make their arguments wrong. As an individual, it's up to you to research both sides and decide on which makes the more compelling case.

Re: How Rent Control Drives Out Affordable Housing

#60
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health care is no different than any other service. If you are able to increase the availability as well as lower the price it helps everyone. Including the poor.

Health is very different from other services, profit should not be the goal. Business does not attempt to help people, but to maximize profit, which does not necessarily mean increasing availability or lowering prices at all. It might be more profitable to dump the lower income people and jack up the prices on those who can afford it. Unlike other industries, getting service is often a literal life or death issue, yo…

I agree with you, but it's not that black and white. Insurance companies are usually the ones paying, not the individual. As such, they have a lot of control over the price (especially in the case of medicare). While it might be life or death for the individual, it's not for the insurance company.
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