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The "email is authentication" pattern

rubenerd.com

151–160 of 474 posts

Re: The "email is authentication" pattern

#151
This is actually a really good use-case for PGP. Opt-in use to upload the pubkey and, if provided, encrypt automated e-mails like auth links and password reset.

Facebook supported this for years, not sure why they recently deprecated it.

Re: The "email is authentication" pattern

#152
I hadn't realised until reading this, that I use this exact method for Best Buy.

Not intentionally though - I have my password stored in 1Password, so I know it's correct, yet every time I try to purchase something through bestbuy.com I trip some sort of ATO protection that falsely claims my password is invalid.

I'm entirely willing to believe it's something on my side (ad blocker, local DNS blacklisting, etc.) but after a certain number of occurrances, you get bored trying to debug the problem and just follow the path of least resistance.

Re: The "email is authentication" pattern

#153
post #56

At this point why not just pass a one-time url link to your email address, and have it be a single click to login? Have it expire within 10 mins if not used, and be one-time use disposable. Still, anyone who has the link initially should be able to login with your account - but it's only accessible from your email. Obliterates all sense of security beyond the email account itself, but that's where we're at anyway. Do…

Some sites do that, like Netdata. But it's slow compared to my PW manager just autofilling a user/PW combo, since I have to wait for the email and go click the link.

Yep, I really hate when I have to go to email to get a verification code or click link to verify. I have a password keeper and 2fa for a reason. I hate the wait.

Re: The "email is authentication" pattern

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't lose your entire savings if you lost your wallet, usually.

Perhaps micro wallets should be a thing where your wealth is distributed across many keys mitigating some loss.

If I’m having trouble juggling a single ball, why would it help to add more balls into the mix?

Re: The "email is authentication" pattern

#155

I’ve seen sites that cut out the forgotten password step, or passwords entirely… email is the authentication. 1. Type in email address 2. Get sent and email with code 3. Enter code to login While I can understand why someone might do this, as someone with multiple emails I kind of hate it. I had to add it to my password manager with the email and a note, so I remember which one to use and it’s not missing a password.

I get this a lot because I use Mullvad 99%of the time. I hate it, but I put up with it because I don’t have much choice. I guess they’re flagging the “popular” ip address that I’m using.

Re: The "email is authentication" pattern

#156
post #62

I swear the McDonald’s app for the U.S. works like this on purpose. I’m prompted for my email then thus send me a link. They never ask me to set up a password.

I don’t see any business who wants to stay in business blocking gmail or outlook.com or yahoo or proton mail

Re: The "email is authentication" pattern

#157
post #141
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-hosting outbound email is hard. Self-hosting inbound email is trivial. Anybody will send email to any random domain, they're just not willing to accept it from random sources. And the latter is what is relevant for password recovery. I self-host inbound but use established servers for outbound through my ISP and have had no trouble with that setup for a while. Forwarding to people through my domain has gotten a…

> Self-hosting inbound email is trivial. Anybody will send email to any random domain, they're just not willing to accept it from random sources. In terms of authentication, this is not entirely true. It's less common these days, but I used to have a lot of trouble with sites rejecting my attempts to create accounts with e-mail addresses from my disposable-e-mail-generator of choice.

> from my disposable-e-mail-generator

Well, I suspect those are more specifically blacklisted.

Re: The "email is authentication" pattern

#158

I’ve seen sites that cut out the forgotten password step, or passwords entirely… email is the authentication. 1. Type in email address 2. Get sent and email with code 3. Enter code to login While I can understand why someone might do this, as someone with multiple emails I kind of hate it. I had to add it to my password manager with the email and a note, so I remember which one to use and it’s not missing a password.

We offered it on a site with a "guest login" where people redeem vouchers but might not want to make an account. So I think that's one valid use case. We need to associate the voucher with the email, so we need to ensure they own it by clicking the link, in case of support hassles down the line for lost vouchers. And if they make the account later they can see their old ones from before.

Re: The "email is authentication" pattern

#159
With email being the source of identity on the internet, it's really unfortunate that the standards have largely lagged heavily behind when it comes to stronger authentication algorithms. Why is SMTP still plaintext on port 25 for MTAMTA? Why is STARTTLS really the best we can do? Why do we not support 2FA or mTLS or passkeys or any one of the other modern authentication mechanisms or IMAP4, SMTP, etc.. ProtonMail is ok but the hoops they have to jump through to get their stuff working is obnoxious.

Re: The "email is authentication" pattern

#160
post #14

Because websites used emails as an identity, strictly in order to stop malicious use. An email ties a user to a domain, the domain issues a user for them. If too many users from a domain are malicious, the website can block the domain. It's a matter of identity and accountability.

Too many don't actually verify the identity. I often get emails lying in the footer with something like "you are receiving these emails because you signed up" - no I didn't, someone else did, and you didn't check. But fast onboarding is king, right?

And then the unsubscribe, close account, or basic support is all locked behind the login, or it's an international phone call. As far as I know, even if it's my email it's not legally my account so signing in would be illegal.

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