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The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

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Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#821

Post by rldjbpin »

iirc they still got the chance to appeal at supreme court, so we shall hear about this in a few quarters time.

personally, if you disconnect the rest of IA from the "CDL" aspect and look at the lawsuit this way, it seems to me like another instance where from legislative perspective, owning a digital copy of media remains inferior to owning the physical one. the affordances of the digital technologies has been used as a way to exploit the laws' interpretation.

AI is shaping up to be the next frontier of this matter, but we don't have a large player (with community focus and not big tech money) that could be tested as a scapegoat just yet.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#822

Post by hilbert42 »

account42 wrote: post #800
hilbert42 wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hardly been successful with China (but I'm not advocating it as a solution).

That's because Chinese copyright infringement is mostly internal. You don't see sites protected by China distributing copyrighted content to the rest of the world.

Smart move, that's necessary lip service to IP treaties. One can extrapolate however, just about every device or widget I buy these days is made in China. What's noticeable is that many, many of them are identical to items that were once produced in the US, UK or Europe (I'm old enough to remember many of those original Western-made products).

Presumably, these items can now flood Western and other markets because they're out of patent and or the original manufacturer has gone bust, not so copyright/IP due to its long expiry date.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#823

Post by jquery »

Dalewyn wrote: post #525
jrflowers wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you verify or report the link to what you claim is a working and playable copy of Super Mario Wonder for Nintendo Switch that you posted here as proof that IA “wantonly distributes warez”?

Here you go, 500GB of warez in just one link: https://archive.org/details/pcgames-jp But wait, there's more!: https://archive.org/details/pcgames-jp-part2 And more!: https://archive.org/details/pcgames-jp-part3 and https://archive.org/details/pcgames-jp-part4 2TB of warez in just four links. But that was way too easy, I just listed 2TB of mostly Japanese eroge. What about more mainstream stuff? Presenting the PS1 rel…

>Internet Archive engages in wanton distribution of warez

So does Google. As long as they take it down when requested, it’s 100% legal, nevermind any moral argument about hosting old software that’s not for sale anymore (HN used to be totally for that…). Some of the links you shared have less than 1000 views. That’s nothing.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#824

Post by AlbertCory »

kragen wrote: post #480
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s an unnecessarily pedantic comment. The US copyright act gives the copyright owner exclusive rights regarding public performance and it also defines where public starts. Sure, there is no license for home viewing but that’s not really changing anything about the point that OP was making.

it does, because they were adducing a cause of action that doesn't exist in either statute or caselaw. nor was it asserted by the plaintiffs, because that would have gotten their case summarily dismissed. moreover, to believe that it existed, you would have to have a comprehensively incorrect understanding of the legislative and political history of us copyright law. anyone who wants to understand any of the argument…

[flagged]

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#825

Post by BlueTemplar »

tptacek wrote: post #680
account42 wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the act of sharing something digitally is implicitly assumed to be making a copy wheres lending someone a book you have already read and internalized is not. Copyright laws should have been adjusted to preserve the same freedoms for digital use as you had before rather than being even more of a bad deal for society.

It's not "assumed" to be making a copy. It clearly is making a copy. Nerds like us want there to be a special kind of copy that doesn't "count" under copyright law, to facilitate things like CDL. But there isn't, and the courts are the wrong place to look for it. Go get a new Copyright Act passed.

Since this is hn, I'm going to be pedantic and somewhat offtopic. :)

There are special kinds of copies that specifically don't count under copyright law : basically anything "cached", be it in RAM, browser caches, or similar.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#826

Post by jrflowers »

Dalewyn wrote: post #748
jrflowers wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you verified or reported _ANY_ of the links you’ve posted here as proof of “hosting warez with wanton abandon”? It is clear that you have some sort of motivation and knowledge about how to navigate the IA to find what you believe to be infringing content — why are you using it to post links to it on this website rather than reporting it? The only thing that you have proven is that the IA accepts user uploads. Th…

[flagged]

It is good to know that you have verified one of those links. Did you report that or any of the others?

What has your experience been like trying to remove infringing content from that site other than you distributing links to said content on other websites? Your confidence that this is so clear-cut flagrant disregard for the law indicates that you must have engaged with them extensively in some way other than sharing these files with strangers online.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#828

Post by mikewarot »

Clearly copyright law is wrong, and needs correction. The extensive use of the propaganda term "Intellectual Property" is the first thing that has to go. There is no such thing. There are copyrights, trade marks, and patents. Each of these involve a government enforced monopoly, which is granted to help benefit society in the long run.

The benefits to society stopped outweighing the costs a long time ago. There is no natural cost to making a digital copy of a work, or using an idea. Nothing in nature stops the spreading of good ideas. It is only by fiat that such things are restricted with the force of Government.

Clearly creators of works need to be encouraged in their efforts, they need to be paid. Far too many creators are not fairly paid, with a rent seeking entity utilizing the asymmetry of the market to abuse them. This needs to end.

The excess profits for those rent seekers are an unlegislated, and hidden tax upon the rest of us. This also needs to end.

The political use of copyright to control debate and limit free speech needs to end.

What's Legal isn't the same as what is Moral. It's time to re-balance the law to more fairly treat all involved.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#829

Post by BlueTemplar »

vel0city wrote: post #744
kmeisthax wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking purely in the realm of Law, and what arguments will get past a court, "buying" a digitally distributed work does not confer any ownership. At the bare minimum, what is actually being purchased when you buy a digitally distributed work is a combination of a license and a service. They transmit the work to you, and you have a license to copy that transmission and store it indefinitely, for your own use. There…

I agree with pretty much everything you said here. However, I'm kind of hoping my comment would draw out more on this idea. > Speaking purely in the realm of Law Let's argue this from the basis of expanding the ideas of copyright to something newer and better for this digital age. As mentioned, these days we're really just buying licenses. How do we better define property rights with this new(ish) concept of ownershi…

Speaking of property-adjacent rights, there's this tricky ongoing legal battle :

https://www.stopkillinggames.com/

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#830

Post by BlueTemplar »

kmeisthax wrote: post #778
vel0city wrote: post #744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with pretty much everything you said here. However, I'm kind of hoping my comment would draw out more on this idea. > Speaking purely in the realm of Law Let's argue this from the basis of expanding the ideas of copyright to something newer and better for this digital age. As mentioned, these days we're really just buying licenses. How do we better define property rights with this new(ish) concept of ownershi…

Good question. While I personally would not consider "suggesting copyright overall is now meaningless" to be a failure[0], there's no way in hell anything that might even remotely harm industry revenue would ever make it through Congress, European Parliament, and/or the Japanese Diet; much less survive challenges in the court or WTO. So the only reforms I can actually suggest are marginal things like this. Anyway. Fi…

Screw anticheat too, it's even worse than DRM : an even more invasive software for an even more anecdotic use.
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