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China: Nvidia Loses Face and a 10 Million PC Order over Linux Drivers and NRE's

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Re: China: Nvidia Loses Face and a 10 Million PC Order over Linux Drivers and NRE's

#21

Post by DaNmarner »

vidarh wrote: post #5

As much as I want this to be true, I don't see anything in terms of sources, I've never heard of this site before, and the style of writing doesn't exactly make it seem very credible. I haven't tried very hard, but didn't immediately find any other sites with this news that weren't simply linking to or regurgitating this article. Losing or winning a contract this size is something you'd expect a lot of well known new…

The Author seems legit, here's a list of his open-source-related writings prior to 2010:

http://www.pcauthority.com.au/Author/146235,nebojsa-novakovi...

Re: China: Nvidia Loses Face and a 10 Million PC Order over Linux Drivers and NRE's

#22

Post by mtgx »

ImprovedSilence wrote: post #13
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #6

China is investing in Linux for one simple reason - they can have someone read the source code. A (low-level?) war is going on right now between US and China - and the battlefield are the hardware and software that runs the world. Can't read the code - then we don't trust that you aren't spying on us. Unfortunately I doubt they will extend the same rights to their citizens. On the Nvidia side, this is either the dumb…

Well, there's that, and the fact that China is notorious for reverse engineering, and basically just stealing the technology and making their own knock-offs. I don't blame Nvidia for not giving them the source code.

If reverse engineering is a crime, then you can probably say the same thing about the whole Linux community, and how they are "stealing" Microsoft and Apple's innovations.

Re: China: Nvidia Loses Face and a 10 Million PC Order over Linux Drivers and NRE's

#23

Post by xlevus »

lucian1900 wrote: post #15
ImprovedSilence wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there's that, and the fact that China is notorious for reverse engineering, and basically just stealing the technology and making their own knock-offs. I don't blame Nvidia for not giving them the source code.

Many experts have shown that hardware specs which are sufficient for writing drivers are entirely useless for making hardware, to someone already versed in the field.

I read/heard/imagined(?) that the reason GPU vendors weren't willing to hand over their source was due to a proportion of their performance being software based. Which then a competitor could also implement.

Re: China: Nvidia Loses Face and a 10 Million PC Order over Linux Drivers and NRE's

#24

Post by lucian1900 »

xlevus wrote: post #23
lucian1900 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many experts have shown that hardware specs which are sufficient for writing drivers are entirely useless for making hardware, to someone already versed in the field.

I read/heard/imagined(?) that the reason GPU vendors weren't willing to hand over their source was due to a proportion of their performance being software based. Which then a competitor could also implement.

They claim that their shader compilers/schedulers are part of their performance benefit, yes.

But they don't need to provide that source, just hardware specs. Gallium3d already has shader compilers and schedulers.

Re: China: Nvidia Loses Face and a 10 Million PC Order over Linux Drivers and NRE's

#25

Post by jlmendezbonini »

BadassFractal wrote: post #9

The article mentions that some of the brightest minds of NVIDIA are now working in China on its future generations of CPUs/GPUs. I don't have the full context, but is it possible that we're seeing the first baby steps of a reverse brain drain?

It's been happening for a while now (2009 article)[1] and there are probably earlier reports.

[1] http://techcrunch.com/2009/10/17/beware-the-reverse-brain-dr...

Re: China: Nvidia Loses Face and a 10 Million PC Order over Linux Drivers and NRE's

#26

Post by mattstreet »

mtgx wrote: post #22
ImprovedSilence wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there's that, and the fact that China is notorious for reverse engineering, and basically just stealing the technology and making their own knock-offs. I don't blame Nvidia for not giving them the source code.

If reverse engineering is a crime, then you can probably say the same thing about the whole Linux community, and how they are "stealing" Microsoft and Apple's innovations.

Who said it was a crime? Just that a company might not want to give away it's source code because they don't want to make it easier for another company to make knock offs.

This has been a big issue for companies dealing with China, you sell your product their for awhile, until they can reverse it (or even hack your servers for info) and make their own.

In this case, the legality wasn't brought up, just the motivations for one company not sharing with another.

Re: China: Nvidia Loses Face and a 10 Million PC Order over Linux Drivers and NRE's

#27

Post by wpietri »

lucian1900 wrote: post #19
xutopia wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So where is my WinModem driver?

You must have misread. If one has enough info about nvidia hardware in order to make a driver for nvidia hardware, the same info is not enough to make your own nvidia hardware clones.

Sounds like plenty to make drivers for your knockoff hardware, though.

Re: China: Nvidia Loses Face and a 10 Million PC Order over Linux Drivers and NRE's

#28

Post by jc-denton »

> As much as I want this to be true.

So all the open source "enthusiasts" who are sooooo happy about this should really learn to think.

1.) Open Source drivers does not mean better drivers. AMD and Intel drivers are crap under Linux. Just google "I hate Linux graphics" to get a more elaborate explanation about this.

2.) Assuming the story is true and the Chinese gov wants open specs and drivers. Would you hand it over?! Nvidia employs a lot of really smart people and their GPU technology is based on decades of research. While I can't judge how much useful open drivers and specs are for the competition keep in mind that the Chinese gov also works on their own CPU / GPU tech. They would probably just rip you off. Paying for your stuff until they figure out how it works and then sell their own. It happened to large European and US companies before. So it is perfectly reasonable that Nvidia is protective.

Re: China: Nvidia Loses Face and a 10 Million PC Order over Linux Drivers and NRE's

#30

Post by joezydeco »

lucian1900 wrote: post #19
xutopia wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So where is my WinModem driver?

You must have misread. If one has enough info about nvidia hardware in order to make a driver for nvidia hardware, the same info is not enough to make your own nvidia hardware clones.

You sure about that? Read up about ghost-shifts in semiconductor fabs. Bunnie tells a bit of the tale in his story about counterfeit SD cards:

"Very low serial numbers, like very low MAC ID addresses, are a hallmark of the “ghost shift”, i.e. the shift that happens very late at night when a rouge worker enters the factory and runs the production machine off the books"

http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=918

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