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Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

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Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#241

Post by brianshaler »

> "With a market this hot"

Maybe the title should get a [2021] because it sounds like the market has cooled substantially in the last year or so.

The article doesn't seem to take into consideration market cycles, assuming market rate always goes up at a rate that outpaces cost-of-living comp adjustments. While this may be the case more often than not, how are companies supposed to absorb market downturns? A salary reduction, if legal (?), seems almost as bad as redundancy except you risk being saddled with disgruntled workers who might decide to jump ship at the next moment that is convenient for them.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#242

Post by lobsterthief »

lainga wrote: post #80
gregfjohnson wrote: post #78

A person close to me works at a law firm. She was feeling a bit stagnant, so she connected with a recruiter. She got a very solid offer with a significant pay bump. She gave her two weeks' notice to her firm, including appointments with the partners. One of the partners asked her for a half hour. They came back with a massive pay raise, and a promotion to partner if she would stay. She was in a state of shock, but th…

What prevents engineering firms from acting like law firms?

All attorneys that work for law firms have billable hours. Only agencies and consultancies have billable hours for engineers.

It’s easier to say “we will lose $X if this person leaves” or “$Y will be at risk if they leave due to personal relationships” than it is to quantify an engineer’s revenue impact to the company.

Hence the common cost center assumption.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#243

Post by haspok »

mmarq wrote: post #181
philipwhiuk wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name a company paying 150-200K that’s not finance or FAANG?

According to levels.fyi: Personio, Deliveroo, Samsara, Atlassian, monday.com (and others, including my employer) I know many consultants that make 150K+ (which is 600£ per day)

There is no Atlassian salary data for the UK on levels.fyi. I think you are just quoting American salaries.

Deliveroo L6 is 135k average, but I think it is more realistic to look at L5, which is just around 105k.

Also, 600 a day as a contractor is nowhere near 150K+, it is 132K paid to your company's account (assuming 220 working days a year - but that's not a salary!), or you go via an umbrella and then it is even less. A 600 daily rate is pretty average in London, but only if you work for a bank - which classifies as "finance", I guess... But then you are not an employee, you are a contractor, which is very different.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#244

Post by sys_64738 »

lrvick wrote: post #176
red_admiral wrote: post #148

As a regular reader of Rachelbythebay - I agree with the sentiment of a lot of other posters here, it's not the money that makes people quit. A classic story here is the "Sodas are no longer free" one: https://steveblank.com/2009/12/21/the-elves-leave-middle-ear... The total cost of free sodas for engineers is probably small compared to their salaries, and for the individual engineer, the new $0.50 per soda cost is p…

100% this. In every company I have been at that was going south, the first things to go after a hiring freeze were snacks and lunch. When companies walk back any benefits of the job that cause you to pay for things out of pocket, you just got a pay cut, and should GTFO.

I found it was time to go when the benefits literature in the Fall went from being glossy printouts to black and white photocopies.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#245

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

dataflow wrote: post #117
notepad0x90 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are good points, but at the end of the day, people issues are management issues. It may not be your specific manager that is responsible but the management of the company and HR, who are responsible for the work environment that is set. I'd imagine it is a business (think money) decision on how much time and effort is put into cultivating a reasonably tolerable work environment. if employees have unreasonable d…

If by "people leave managers" they mean anyone in the chain up to and including the CEO, then I guess? That's hardly a meaningful statement though, it's practically a tautology... the CEO is ultimately responsible for everything the company does, so whatever reason you have for leaving is their responsibility... by definition. I can't say I find a tautology like that to be a particularly insightful observation, but m…

Yeah, the "managers" in the term "people leave managers" refers to their immediate manager in my experience, and often their immediate manager doesn't make the call on a lot of stuff.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#246

Post by sys_64738 »

red_admiral wrote: post #148

As a regular reader of Rachelbythebay - I agree with the sentiment of a lot of other posters here, it's not the money that makes people quit. A classic story here is the "Sodas are no longer free" one: https://steveblank.com/2009/12/21/the-elves-leave-middle-ear... The total cost of free sodas for engineers is probably small compared to their salaries, and for the individual engineer, the new $0.50 per soda cost is p…

When Oracle bought Sun then the first day they installed the free soda fridges everywhere. They were replenished always.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#247

Post by doctorwho42 »

rightbyte wrote: post #222
dagw wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at a company that bought a smaller company. That smaller company had free snacks and we didn't. Somewhere in the negotiation someone from our company had promised the employees at the smaller company that they would be able to keep their free snacks. Anyway, merger happens and no free snacks. Now there were probably several reasons why the merger wasn't a success and why basically everybody from that company…

Food is holy in a primal way. It pisses people off when you mess with their food, don't invite them for it, etc. Way way way more than what is proportional to the costs. Like, 'pizza for all but the contractor' kind of social transgressions.

And food can also be a great incentive for improving culture of a work place.

I went from one department where the boss penny pinched all the lunches/leaving dinners/birthday budget... To a department where the boss works hard to keep a fund that allows us to go to nice restaurants, buy catered food for major meetings, and have a budget for birthday cakes.

I will tell you one thing, I definitely overlook the shortcomings of the new boss and try to compensate for them without much complaint. The first boss? I did just enough ass covering to get solidly good reviews.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#248

Post by mmarq »

colesantiago wrote: post #230
mmarq wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to levels.fyi: Personio, Deliveroo, Samsara, Atlassian, monday.com (and others, including my employer) I know many consultants that make 150K+ (which is 600£ per day)

Apart for consultants which is what I recommend people get into for a high paying job, even looking at levels.fyi, the average pay is actually lower in the UK. Take Samsara, on average basis an entry level engineer in the US pays higher than a semi-senior SWE (SWE II) in the UK, taking into account the base as well for a senior also looks dismal for UK engineers. Even when these companies are public, UK salaries just…

Salaries in the US are much higher, but it doesn’t mean you can’t hit 150K of total compensation working for a non-FAANG company.

Here’s one that advertised on this site: https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/meticulous/jobs/AkHpFa...

Up to 160K plus 1% of equity.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#249

Post by mmarq »

m_rpn wrote: post #229
mmarq wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to levels.fyi: Personio, Deliveroo, Samsara, Atlassian, monday.com (and others, including my employer) I know many consultants that make 150K+ (which is 600£ per day)

Good for you, i work in finance in london and don't quite make that much, none of my friends in other places like JP, Goldman Sachs, Amazon, Instagram ecc does make 200k pounds/year base, maybe in tc yes. Skill issue probably. I would say 90-120k pounds/year base for a mid-senior engineer in FAANG/Finance is what most of us is being offered right now in London, based on my recent experience. What i feel is that many…

RSUs and bonuses are part of compensation.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#250

Post by Yizahi »

dagw wrote: post #208
lrvick wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% this. In every company I have been at that was going south, the first things to go after a hiring freeze were snacks and lunch. When companies walk back any benefits of the job that cause you to pay for things out of pocket, you just got a pay cut, and should GTFO.

I worked at a company that bought a smaller company. That smaller company had free snacks and we didn't. Somewhere in the negotiation someone from our company had promised the employees at the smaller company that they would be able to keep their free snacks. Anyway, merger happens and no free snacks. Now there were probably several reasons why the merger wasn't a success and why basically everybody from that company…

One thing is certain in 2024 - ANY agreement to the low rank employees about something after merger/acquisition is a lie. Like clockwork, every single time.
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