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Why do you think people are poor?

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Re: Why do you think people are poor?

#231

Post by celer »

kylebrown wrote: post #126
mindcrime wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument has never been that it is impossible to rise from poverty. The argument is that it is demonstrably massively unlikely. So the question then, as I see it, is "how do we make it more likely?" I mean, if I can overcome all sorts of obstacles that are frequently cited as reasons people remain in poverty, and I am not anybody particularly special, then why shouldn't anybody else be able to? What separates a k…

> So the question then, as I see it, is "how do we make it more likely?" We'd have to change the structure of society. Its a class structure, and there's only so much room at the top. The wealth of the upper class comes from extracting rents from the lower class. This happens on a global scale (core countries exploiting the periphery) as well as a local scale (landlords with good credit collect more in rent than they…

So, the core(rich) countries include South Korea, Japan, Western Europe, and the United States. What exactly is the periphery? I don't think that there exists the geographic bias you imply.

Re: Why do you think people are poor?

#232

Post by mibbitier »

sparkie wrote: post #184
gigantor wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Canada, the minimum wage + large dividend payment system is allowed and encouraged. Encouraged because it's a transparent way of declaring your income and earnings without using any complex loopholes to bypass the system. Encouraged because: 1) Having your own company is more risky as opposed to a Permanent employee role in the government's eyes, hence more opportunities to pay less taxes 2) Companies are far more…

Hey, thanks for your input. The Canadian system seems similar to the UK. Every accountant is doing this, but there just doesn't seem to be an openness about it. It seems you only know how to do this if you're an accountant, or know an accountant - which was the point I was trying to get across in my original post - you aren't told this in school - they only tell you how to get a job, where none of it applies.

It's extremely open. If you're in the position of running a company, either you find out it's a good idea, or you get an accountant, who will tell you it's a good idea.

Sure, they don't teach you it at school, because most people at school won't start their own companies.

Re: Why do you think people are poor?

#233

Post by atirip »

dedward wrote: post #178

I see lots of people blaming "the system" and whatnot for not teaching you to be rich..... and getting you into debt. And to be sure, the financial industry has been given too much rope to hand out credit without enough risk. But I seem to recall seeing many other forums about university, mortgages, etc, where people who's parents paid for their education, helped with a house, etc, are ridiculed - and I don't mean su…

"After 20 years of working you should be in a position where you could have no job for a year or more without screwing up your life."

We call it - "Go fuck yourself, boss" money.

Re: Why do you think people are poor?

#234

Post by Produce »

flyinRyan wrote: post #228
Produce wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bzzzt! Different word. Socialism does not address inequality of power.

Anarchy?

More accurately, anarchism, difference being:

>Anarchy is a condition of life without the intrusion of governance and the mechanisms and institutions of the state.

>Anarchism is the political philosophy which has anarchy as its goal.

Re: Why do you think people are poor?

#235

Post by coob »

vacri wrote: post #219
ismarc wrote: post #206

It's hard to write this, and my opinion is probably biased because of it, but this article is nothing but a giant load of horse shit and is a carefully constructed as "feel good" to reinforce the preconceived notions the author had going into it. A little bit of background; I grew up poor, people randomly leaving food on our doorstep poor, my parents giving the bike I had bought with my own earned money to my brother…

I don't think you're as much at odds with the author as you claim. What I read in the article was him trying to teach a different way of looking at things, a new angle, which is what I read you got out of your enlistment.

Yes, this quote from the reply jumped out at me: "What mattered was that I was removed from the environment I was in."

The author is saying the same thing, though perhaps more to do with mental models than physicality.

Re: Why do you think people are poor?

#236

Post by maked00 »

Just one more apologist for the 1% telling them it's ok that you have so much and most other people have none. It's their choice. They choose to be poor. It is very simple. So go back to cheating on your taxes so you can afford shinyer rings. It's not your fault our infrastructure is crumbling, its all those poor people who refuse to choose to not be poor. Shelve next to other right wing wacko screeds like Ayn Rand.

Re: Why do you think people are poor?

#237

Post by antninja »

m0skit0 wrote: post #225

There are poors so rich can stay rich.

The richer are some, the poorer are others.

There is a limited amount of money/wealth in the world. If some people take/earn/inherit more than average, then less wealth will remain available to others. The only way to fight poverty is to prevent exaggerated accumulation of wealth (the rich must be incited to spend his money, if not through creating jobs, then through taxes).

Re: Why do you think people are poor?

#238

Post by Retric »

ismarc wrote: post #206

It's hard to write this, and my opinion is probably biased because of it, but this article is nothing but a giant load of horse shit and is a carefully constructed as "feel good" to reinforce the preconceived notions the author had going into it. A little bit of background; I grew up poor, people randomly leaving food on our doorstep poor, my parents giving the bike I had bought with my own earned money to my brother…

The problem with poverty in the US is not 'no money' the problem is not knowing how to live without it. If you have math and problem solving skills you can avoid a lot of huge money sinks everywhere from the grocery store to transportation etc. You can decide to keep your apartment cold enough that your neighbors help heat it. But, when your desperate the idea that you will suffer now to get ahead becomes unacceptable, anything to feel better now because the future is not something you want to think about.

PS: Mental illness runs in my family so I have plenty of poor relatives, and a few rich ones. It's not hard to find two people that make about the same amount of money living vastly different lives. Just compare grad students with other people living on what they make.

Re: Why do you think people are poor?

#239

Post by maked00 »

Gotta love all these ditto heads doing the 'start your own business' chorus. 99% of all new businesses fail.

The 1% have been working very hard to pull up and destroy the ladders they used to get where they are.

In the current fascist economy there is simply no way 100 out of 100 people can all strike it rich. The handful at the top are busy cementing their position.

The game is rigged.

Re: Why do you think people are poor?

#240

Post by bgruber »

sparkie wrote: post #154
mindcrime wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot to be said for that. If somebody had really sat down and hammered me on the power of compound interest and taught me a little bit about the capital markets, when I was, say, 14 or so... I think I would have made a lot of decisions differently and would probably be better off today. Although, to be fair on this point, I'm not sure it would have helped, because I can't - in retrospect - say that my 14 yea…

I only really discovered the advantages of creating my own business when I was around 23, I'm 25 now. I also got into a significant amount of debt in order to get a degree to make me more "employable" - and I'm still paying it back. I'm perhaps most irritated by this because I'm mostly self-taught (in computer science) and university did very little for me. I should've studied business instead, but probably like you…

> I also got into a significant amount of debt in order to get a degree to make me more "employable"

There lies the rub between many of us and higher education. Making you more employable is supposed to be a side-effect of college, not the end goal. I found that the people who went to school so that they could write down that they did so got exactly what the came for and not much more, while those of us who were there to learn got what we came for. It's an old idea, but true that what you get out of education depends on what you put into it.

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