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Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

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Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#131
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What prevents engineering firms from acting like law firms?

engineers either have patent quotas or are blue collar as far as any Enterprise is concerned. do you have patent quotas at your position? if not they are counting the days to replace you with a machine, someone overseas, a script, AI. depending on the decade.

Why is a lawyer position irreplaceable, but an engineering/blue collar one is not?

Not trying to be spiteful or angry, just geniunely curious about the business logic and psychology behind that kind of decision making. Isn't every job replaceable?

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#132
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, I look at every extra dollar I could make (that I don't technically need to survive) as some number fewer minutes until I can retire. So every extra dollar is worth it, no matter how frugal my lifestyle is.

Here’s hoping you’re lucky enough to live until then. Don’t forget to live in the meantime. It’s a lot easier to hike across Europe in your 30s than in your 50s.

A lot of my swiss neighbours are more fit than half my friends in their 30s, and they are 70+.

I'm not sure what the secret is but I'm fairly sure just moving here added an extra 10 years to my life expectancy.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#133
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money isn’t everything, but the math behind retirement saving is compelling. https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-si...

Right but what if you enjoy your job and don’t want to retire?

I love my job but having too much money would let me email someone 4 higher in the hierarchy to give them my opinion on things. :)

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#134

In my experience, the job hopping for an increase only works up to senior / lead level (or engineering manager for manager counterpart). Anything after that requires time in role having a consistent, positive impact, and building up a portfolio that you can then use to sell yourself at the company for one of the coveted principal / staff / otherwise distinguished roles.

My first job hop was for about +33%. The next one was for +15%. The next one maybe +8%. Fast forward to today, my most recent job hop was probably even, maybe +0.5% at most. You definitely plateau at some point.

i think the plateau is the real market value, we were just underpaid before

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#135
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> included frustrations with management Which I presume this is another way to say “your direct boss”. Because 99% of an employees view of a company, and opinions about their employer, is actually just a reflection of their like/dislike of their direct boss.

Red Pill: The boss/employee relationship depends equally on both people. If you always "have a terrible boss" that really means your relationship with your boss is bad, which depends on both people. You were warned. The Red Pill is near: To spell it out: If you consistently have a terrible relationship with your boss, with several bosses... I'm sorry, but the common factor is you. You're probably a shitty employee.

The more negative things a new hire has to say about their former employer or coworkers, the more likely that they are unbearable to work with.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HR has a saying "employees don't leave jobs, they leave managers". Pay has motivated me to look for other jobs, but only after I was already worn out and frustrated with my current job. Switching jobs isn't like getting a new car or moving to a new apartment. It's traumatic, kind of like going through a break-up. You work with the same people for years and then suddenly you will never see them again. That isn't pleas…

>It's traumatic, kind of like going through a break-up. You work with the same people for years and then suddenly you will never see them again. That isn't pleasant. That depends on your co-workers. It may be more like getting a divorce from an abusive spouse.

Either way, unpleasant.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#137

Hiring people is like gambling for companies, as in most tech companies hire some person on the off chance they're a 10x developer, though expect them to be a 1.5x one on average. Even if you're a 2x developer, you haven't lived up to the hypothetical 10x ideal to your employer, so they aren't willing to put in the extra money and effort to convince you to stay, there's more incentive to put that money into hiring th…

Frankly, this 10x dev myth should just die. There are only at most 2x developers, and most ordinary people are just below the 1x factor.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#138
Management Mindset: As long as the employee is not complaining, why throw more money? Besides, they can't be "that valuable and hard to replace".

I have even seen management who don't even bat an eye or goes extra mile to hire some 5-10x more expensive(even compared to market value) limited time contractor but zero interest or energy in putting up a fight to give a fair pay bump to one or more severely underpaid employee(s).

The tainting is a mind game: an employee suddenly hears from their friend or random recruiter about some lucrative offer(usually at least 25-100% raise in pay), tries out their luck and lands an offer, but now manager(assuming a sensible person) needs to put a fight[1] with upper management to bring that same bump(or comparable).

However, the relation is now tainted: employee now feels that injustice had been done and there is no guarantee that in future further raises/promotions will not come easy[2] and the manager might be looking into replacing them soon. The manager is now also sad that, they got under pressure by a leveraged employee+upper management will push to de-leverage such assets(yes a term managers use), and seek to replace such expensive assets soon. Now, both sides are running on bad trust and it gets immensely uncomfortable, hence the employee leaves anyways or get replaced by some shiny new hire who will command more than the original employee being replaced attained at their level.

[1] This is often difficult, unless your manager is politically influential, because once you have neglected an employee too long, adjustment can be bit high, it is now difficult to justify, how suddenly a particular employee became so much valuable out of the blue. Human mind is wired in such a way that, slowly ascending a hill feels less tiring compared to ascending steep jumps, as the latter takes more energy(or in case of employee big pay bump).

[2] Even though the adjustment being a correct valuation, any raise/bump of significance also brings expectations of more responsibilities and higher performance which is the same ol' undervaluing again in action.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#139
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s hoping you’re lucky enough to live until then. Don’t forget to live in the meantime. It’s a lot easier to hike across Europe in your 30s than in your 50s.

" Here’s hoping you’re lucky enough to live until then. "? The median lifespan is over 80 and developers are paid above the median, often by quite a bit. It's far, far more likely in your 50s that you'll be staring down the barrel of a layoff + industry downturn and cursing yourself for the money spent on your trip across Europe and other frivolities in your 30s.

I couldn’t imagine living like that. Yes, it’s possible that I’ll get screwed since I started my money making career late, but I might have died of depression much younger otherwise. Everyone needs to find their own route through life and working your youth way is really really scary when you turn 59 and realize you haven’t lived yet.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#140
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s hoping you’re lucky enough to live until then. Don’t forget to live in the meantime. It’s a lot easier to hike across Europe in your 30s than in your 50s.

A lot of my swiss neighbours are more fit than half my friends in their 30s, and they are 70+. I'm not sure what the secret is but I'm fairly sure just moving here added an extra 10 years to my life expectancy.

That's because we hike across our 30s, and don't stop until our 80s (at least a part of the population). Work is fine, but being outside makes you live longer and better.

My grandfather was still skiing while being 80.

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