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Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

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Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#31

Post by BadHumans »

steelframe wrote: post #25
BadHumans wrote: post #9

This entire piece starts from the conclusion that engineers leave because they aren't paid enough then works backwards from there. This is wrong from my experience. Anecdotally, I have never left a job because of money. Sure, I left jobs and got ones that ended up paying more money but the reason I started looking in the first place wasn't money. It was for other reasons that usually included frustrations with manage…

You should try leaving a company for money sometime. Financial independence really is life-changing, and you can get there surprisingly quickly in the tech industry by putting yourself on the market more often. Anecdotally, at my current company nearly everyone I know who left did so within a few months of hitting the 4-year cliff on their signing equity. I've left 3 companies in my career primarily because the next…

I make low six figures in a low to medium cost of living area. I don't think even doubling my income would change my life too much.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#32

Post by colesantiago »

linotype wrote: post #11
colesantiago wrote: post #3

It is simple. Because they have no money. For startups, they want engineers to take a pay cut to work 996-like hours. Especially in the UK, where there is a running joke where companies complain about a “skills shortage” when in reality companies cannot find engineers at top universities that want to take a pay cut and work for less pay.

What do you think the UK could do to make the situation better aside from increasing pay? Or is that the only issue?

UK companies do not respect software engineers or reward them properly (not even stock), even interns in other places get paid 5x more than a senior engineer in the UK. There is a also a huge cost of living issue in the UK which makes it dead on arrival for any software engineering job in the UK.

I could say there should be more VC funding in the UK for startups but I don't think this would help either due to the above issues especially pay, as I don't see this at all.

So there is nothing the UK can do to make the situation better other than talented engineers should either go into finance / hedge funds, leetcode hard and compete for FAANG jobs only or move to the US and don't look back.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#33

Post by notepad0x90 »

ljlolel wrote: post #29
notepad0x90 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HR has a saying "employees don't leave jobs, they leave managers". Pay has motivated me to look for other jobs, but only after I was already worn out and frustrated with my current job. Switching jobs isn't like getting a new car or moving to a new apartment. It's traumatic, kind of like going through a break-up. You work with the same people for years and then suddenly you will never see them again. That isn't pleas…

Still traumatic with remote?

When leaving jobs? For me it's even more traumatic. In-person working tends to come with a lot more drama, so leaving can be a relief in part. Remote working, at least for someone of my personality and slight obsession with technical matters, I could get more attached to like minded co-workers; with WFH I encounter minimal drama. But on this topic, pay is much less of an issue as well for WFH. I think I would put up with a lot more of undesirable work conditions remotely than in-person.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#34

Post by marssaxman »

BadHumans wrote: post #9

This entire piece starts from the conclusion that engineers leave because they aren't paid enough then works backwards from there. This is wrong from my experience. Anecdotally, I have never left a job because of money. Sure, I left jobs and got ones that ended up paying more money but the reason I started looking in the first place wasn't money. It was for other reasons that usually included frustrations with manage…

Not only have I never left a job simply to get more money, I have on more than one occasion left a job for one offering less money - and considered it an upgrade.

Sometimes you have to ask: how, exactly, is the extra money I might earn here going to buy enough extra happiness to make up for the crap I'd have to put up with in the process of earning it? And sometimes there is no good answer.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#35

Post by kccqzy »

alberth wrote: post #24
BadHumans wrote: post #9

This entire piece starts from the conclusion that engineers leave because they aren't paid enough then works backwards from there. This is wrong from my experience. Anecdotally, I have never left a job because of money. Sure, I left jobs and got ones that ended up paying more money but the reason I started looking in the first place wasn't money. It was for other reasons that usually included frustrations with manage…

> included frustrations with management Which I presume this is another way to say “your direct boss”. Because 99% of an employees view of a company, and opinions about their employer, is actually just a reflection of their like/dislike of their direct boss.

Not in my case. I left Google but it wasn't because of my direct manager. It was because of Google-wide issues that are outside of my or my manager's or my director's control.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#36

Post by bb88 »

steelframe wrote: post #25
BadHumans wrote: post #9

This entire piece starts from the conclusion that engineers leave because they aren't paid enough then works backwards from there. This is wrong from my experience. Anecdotally, I have never left a job because of money. Sure, I left jobs and got ones that ended up paying more money but the reason I started looking in the first place wasn't money. It was for other reasons that usually included frustrations with manage…

You should try leaving a company for money sometime. Financial independence really is life-changing, and you can get there surprisingly quickly in the tech industry by putting yourself on the market more often. Anecdotally, at my current company nearly everyone I know who left did so within a few months of hitting the 4-year cliff on their signing equity. I've left 3 companies in my career primarily because the next…

> Financial independence really is life-changing.

This.

All companies want you to be loyal to them and them only. But they won't reciprocate it. Only the C-suite is deserving of hefty pay bumps.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#37

Post by yieldcrv »

BadHumans wrote: post #16
yieldcrv wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was for other reasons that usually included frustrations with management. and here I am thinking this was a meme by HR myself and all my competition leave jobs due to - and for - money. if you're sticking around to stay in graces of your comfortable management you are contributing to the wage gap for your respective gender in the wrong direction.

> if you're sticking around to stay in graces of your comfortable management you are contributing to the wage gap for your respective gender in the wrong direction. I have no idea why I should care about this.

privileged take

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#38

Post by yen223 »

gkoberger wrote: post #6

This is from 2021. Since then, they hired their Head of People a month later, and ~6 months later published a follow up: https://www.goethena.com/post/a-public-and-transparent-formu...

My previous company did something similar. They had employee pay structure listed in their handbook and is available to all employees. If I knew what level you were at, I knew how much you were making.

I really liked it. They rarely had the problem where people felt they were under-compensated for doing the same job - a problem that I have since learnt is prevalent in other companies.

Re: Why Don't Tech Companies Pay Their Engineers to Stay?

#39

Post by bb88 »

BadHumans wrote: post #31
steelframe wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try leaving a company for money sometime. Financial independence really is life-changing, and you can get there surprisingly quickly in the tech industry by putting yourself on the market more often. Anecdotally, at my current company nearly everyone I know who left did so within a few months of hitting the 4-year cliff on their signing equity. I've left 3 companies in my career primarily because the next…

I make low six figures in a low to medium cost of living area. I don't think even doubling my income would change my life too much.

I've had my income more than doubled now, nearly tripled in the past decade. Just because I was willing to move where I would be paid market rate.

There's a lot of companies in high cost of living areas that may be willing to split the difference in salary.

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