Show HN: Hacker League – Open-Source Rocket League on Linux • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: Hacker League – Open-Source Rocket League on Linux

#81

Post by SkiFire13 » Thu, Sep 05, 2024, 5:45 PM UTC

JasonSage wrote: post #48

tylerflick wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The game developers don't have the money to develop exhaustive anti-abuse mechanisms, or to pay a large support staff to sift through reports, so lots of times the best you get is a simple heuristic. And these companies are not financially incentivized to ban bad actors. In fact, they're incentivized to ban _as few as possible_ without damaging the player base. I can promise you this is not true. Major publishers a…

I’m interested in learning more about this. Obviously this is something I care about and want to be well-read in when presenting a case. I do know in League of Legends that there’s a lot more care and attention put into it, and frankly I suspect that it’s because they have the money to do so and because they care deeply about the game still being relevant in 1 & 2 decades from now. The same can be said of Fortnite, p…

Rocket League has been declining since Epic Games bought them.

Re: Show HN: Hacker League – Open-Source Rocket League on Linux

#82

Post by walr000s » Thu, Sep 05, 2024, 5:46 PM UTC

vonunov wrote: post #40

walr000s wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard Comm, a pro, once say that he wished he had his 14 year old fingers back...think he was 17 at a time. To me, a 40 year old playing with KBM, I feel like I just can't bend my brain around all of the 3d possibilities. I just don't have any intuition for rolling my car while it accelerates towards the front...and then you add in the complexity of the camera and, yeah, I suck.

Part of the problem is rolling vs. yawing. Most players have something along the lines of LB mapped to powerslide + air roll. So when flying, they have to think (actively or otherwise) about when to roll vs. when to release LB so that the left stick X axis will yaw instead. This is, in my experience, very difficult to actually do. There's a control config I tried and greatly enjoyed that addresses this. I want to get…

Another reason to envy controller players. I just can't get used to it.

Re: Show HN: Hacker League – Open-Source Rocket League on Linux

#83

Post by superkuh » Thu, Sep 05, 2024, 6:08 PM UTC

Handprint4469 wrote: post #21

verandaguy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This... is a Rocket League clone, yeah, in the loosest sense of the word. I don't think the author's deeply involved in political wheelings and dealings around Epic's past actions and trying to whitewash something they did. People make side projects all the time that port "missing" software to new platforms, regardless of the reason that software is missing from that platform. There's a good chance OP didn't even kno…

Don't engage, this is clearly some sort of ragebaiting, trying to get people outraged about Epic in a completely unrelated thread

I also feel bad about this engagement. I don't think there's actually any conflicting arguments here, just misunderstandings. I don't understand why people keep projecting wierd meanings onto the word mitigation.

It's only natural to think about rocket league for linux in a submission about rocket league for linux (now with the HN title reworded). Mentioning that this rocket league for linux is not a full replacement for rocket league for linux in a thread about linux rocket league is hardly ragebait and supremely on-topic. Unlike everything else in this sub-thread.

Re: Show HN: Hacker League – Open-Source Rocket League on Linux

#84

Post by stackghost » Thu, Sep 05, 2024, 6:15 PM UTC

batch12 wrote: post #78

JohnMakin wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could write an essay on this (played since 2015) so I'm sorry if this is overly wordy and I hope it makes sense. A long time ago they had a pretty basic MMR/matchmaking system that was being gamed pretty badly by smurfs. So, in an attempt to deal with smurfs, Epic made a really opaque blackbox "internal" MMR, that determines what kind of teammates you get. The reason this exists is because everyone tends to get lum…

If it helps anyone else- The term 'smurf' is used in gaming to describe a player in an online game that creates a new account to play against lower-ranked players, however, it can be used as an all-around term for describing a player who uses an alternate account or multiple accounts. Matchmaking Rating (MMR)

Pretty sure that "Smurf" originated with the Tribes series, as you could create alias nicknames/accounts that showed up as blue in the player list.

Or at least, that's the first time I encountered the term.

Re: Show HN: Hacker League – Open-Source Rocket League on Linux

#85

Post by busterarm » Thu, Sep 05, 2024, 6:31 PM UTC

lupusreal wrote: post #68

busterarm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard disagree. With the exception of 1v1 fighting games, centralized/official servers are _required_ for esports to even work. Peer-to-peer communication models and self-hosted client-server games both are filled with cheaters. How would players ever feel comfortable competing on community/self-hosted server? "Esports" games require absolutely massive communities (e.g., marketing) and no open-source game has even com…

> "Esports" games require absolutely massive communities (e.g., marketing) and no open-source game has even come close to the scale required to sustain an esport. If by "sustain an esport" you mean as a profitable enterprise, then probably not. Is that the best metric though? Open source games can become popular enough for competitive scenes to emerge; Warsow is an example of this. Popular enough for competitive play…

No I mean "sustain an esport" the same as I would mean "sustain a sport".

For it to be an actual contest it needs an actual sample size of players. Sports need spectators and narratives that generate interest.

Nobody gives a damn about Warsow the same way nobody gave a damn about Ferret-Legging.

It's not a sport if its players are limited to "you and your mates from round the way", that's just a game. Sports are meant to expose the limits of human potential.

Re: Show HN: Hacker League – Open-Source Rocket League on Linux

#86

Post by Cpoll » Thu, Sep 05, 2024, 6:40 PM UTC

stackghost wrote: post #84

batch12 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it helps anyone else- The term 'smurf' is used in gaming to describe a player in an online game that creates a new account to play against lower-ranked players, however, it can be used as an all-around term for describing a player who uses an alternate account or multiple accounts. Matchmaking Rating (MMR)

Pretty sure that "Smurf" originated with the Tribes series, as you could create alias nicknames/accounts that showed up as blue in the player list. Or at least, that's the first time I encountered the term.

The etymology I've heard is that it comes from Warcraft 2, where some top players made Smurf-themed alt-accounts after everyone started dodging them. That may be apocryphal.

Re: Show HN: Hacker League – Open-Source Rocket League on Linux

#87

Post by ThatPlayer » Thu, Sep 05, 2024, 7:18 PM UTC

JasonSage wrote: post #19

I seriously, seriously think that in the future (possibly far future) various eSports will all be derived from a few open-source base games. The ability of game developers to leverage licensing, contracts with orgs, etc. to lock down a competitive ecosystem with exclusivity results in inability for a "free market" to develop around running events and broadcasts. Rocket League and League of Legends come to mind here,…

> The game developers don't have the money to develop exhaustive anti-abuse mechanisms, or to pay a large support staff to sift through reports, so lots of times the best you get is a simple heuristic.

And neither do open-source projects. The majority of people looking to play video games do not want to be the ones moderating. They'll take the path of least resistance and let companies do it for them.

> If I play on a local soccer team and they're all racist or homophobic, I'll find a new team or a new league. But at present there's no "find a new Rocket League".

You don't need to find a new game though, you can find a new league. Except for maybe battle royale games, most games still allow private matches. Make a private match and invite the people you want to play with. Organize a league yourself. It'll be easier than building your own game, and you'll run into the same problems with an open-source game: how do you convince people to play your league rather than the official easy matchmaking? Rather than the official huge playerbase game?

Re: Show HN: Hacker League – Open-Source Rocket League on Linux

#88

Post by lupusreal » Thu, Sep 05, 2024, 7:30 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #85

lupusreal wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Esports" games require absolutely massive communities (e.g., marketing) and no open-source game has even come close to the scale required to sustain an esport. If by "sustain an esport" you mean as a profitable enterprise, then probably not. Is that the best metric though? Open source games can become popular enough for competitive scenes to emerge; Warsow is an example of this. Popular enough for competitive play…

No I mean "sustain an esport" the same as I would mean "sustain a sport". For it to be an actual contest it needs an actual sample size of players. Sports need spectators and narratives that generate interest. Nobody gives a damn about Warsow the same way nobody gave a damn about Ferret-Legging. It's not a sport if its players are limited to "you and your mates from round the way", that's just a game. Sports are mean…

Warsow's popularity fell off but it was there for a while. You can't reasonably expect every game to stay popular forever, not be the most popular around. It's not like every ball sport other than football/soccer is a failure just because "nobody cares about it" relative to that.

Re: Show HN: Hacker League – Open-Source Rocket League on Linux

#89

Post by ThatPlayer » Thu, Sep 05, 2024, 7:53 PM UTC

splwjs wrote: post #32

richrichardsson wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I basically suck at Rocket League (can't get beyond Plat.III in any mode), but I still enjoy playing it daily. Turn off ALL chat except tactical team quick chats, otherwise it's a toxic quagmire.

I think online matchmaking has absolutely destroyed people's ability to feel like they're good at any game. Like you'll never be a big fish in a small pond. If you played as much as you currently do but could only play with people local to you, you'd be the best person you know at this thing. And that's a really good feeling. But you'll never get that feeling, because you should really be grinding past whatever plat…

Conversely you'll never be a small fish in a big pond. If you could only play with people local to you and they all played much more than you, you'd be the worse person you know at this thing. And that's a really bad feeling. That gets people to quit games.

The big fish eat all the small fish until the big fish are the only ones left.

Re: Show HN: Hacker League – Open-Source Rocket League on Linux

#90

Post by bonestamp2 » Thu, Sep 05, 2024, 8:00 PM UTC

JohnMakin wrote: post #77

samtheprogram wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> way they do ranked ladder Could you elaborate? I play the game, but I don’t play much of anything else with ranks so I’m curious what ladder means here and the alternative examples.

I could write an essay on this (played since 2015) so I'm sorry if this is overly wordy and I hope it makes sense. A long time ago they had a pretty basic MMR/matchmaking system that was being gamed pretty badly by smurfs. So, in an attempt to deal with smurfs, Epic made a really opaque blackbox "internal" MMR, that determines what kind of teammates you get. The reason this exists is because everyone tends to get lum…

Very well said, it's so frustrating.

One thing that has always bugged me, and that I've never seen discussed, is that when I play solo they'll pair me up with two other solo players and then match us up against a 3 player clan!

Even if we all have the same rank, they're not at all considering the advantage of 3 players who play well as a team, and in the clan case... probably practice and play together a lot. Especially at the lower ranks, but sometimes in the mid-high ranks, a well organized team can demolish a random group of slightly higher ranked players who haven't established a playbook.

At times when the servers are saturated with players, I think they should only match parties with other parties of the same size. For example, parties of two would only be matched against other parties of two and then each party would get solo player(s) to reach the team size of a given match. Parties of three would only play against other parties of three, etc. I understand there are times of low liquidity and such matchmaking would be impossible, and that's fine... I'd rather play than not, but when liquidity is high then I'd rather wait an extra 15-30 seconds for teams and parties to be more balanced.

What do you think about party size aware match making?