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Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

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Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#651
post #635

This being ycombinator and as such ostensibly has one or two (if not more) VCs as readers/commentators … can someone please tell me how these companies that are being invested in in the AI space are going to make returns on the money invested? What’s the business plan? (I’m not rich enough to be in these meetings) I just don’t see how the returns will happen. Open source LLMs exist and will get better. Is it just tha…

> Doesn’t OpenAI make some substantial part of the revenue for all the AI space? I just don’t see it. So... OpenAI's business model may or may not represent a long term business model. ATT, it just the simplest commercial model, and it happened to work for them given all the excitement and a $20 price point that takes advantage of that. The current "market for ai" is a sprout. It's form doesn't tell you much about th…

> extremely large "AI market"

It's potentially way bigger than that. AI doesn't have to be the product itself.

Fundamentally, when we have full AGI/ASI and also the ability to produce robots with human level dexterity and mobility, one would have control over an endless pool of workers (worker replacements) with any skillset you require.

If you rent that "workforce" out, the customer would rake in most of the profit.

But if you use that workforce to replace all/most of the employees in the companies you control directly, most of the profit would go to you.

This may even go beyond economic profit. At some point, it could translate to physical power. If you have a fleet 50 million robots that has the capability to do anything from carpentry to operating as riot police, you may even have the ability to take physical control of a country or territory by force.

And:

power >= money

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LLMs are obviously more general than any previous AI system, in that they can do math or play chess or write a poem, all using the same system But they can't, they still fail at arithmetic and still fail at counting syllables. I think that LLMs are really impressive but they are the perfect example of a narrow intelligence. I think they don't blur the lines between narrow and general, they just show a different dim…

>But they can't, they still fail at arithmetic and still fail at counting syllables. You are incorrect. These services are free, you can go and try it out for yourself. LLMs are perfectly capable of simple arithmetic, better than many humans and worse than some. They can also play chess and write poetry, and I made zero claims at "counting syllables", but it seems perfectly capable of doing that too. See for yourself…

For arithmetic, this is ChatGPT:

    how much is (0.2 + 0.1) * 10?
    The result of (0.2+0.1)×10 is approximately 3, with a slight rounding difference leading to 3.0000000000000004.   
My 10yo does not make this error, ChatGPT does because it does not understand math, but knows how to use Python.

For poetry: counting syllables is a significant part of most poetry forms, so if you can't count syllables, you can't do poetry.

Let's say you want a 5-7-5 haiku, this is ChatGPT

    write a 5-7-5 haiku about windstorms

    Fierce winds howl and spin,
    Branches bend, clouds race the sky,
    Storm leaves quiet calm. 
this is not a 5-7-5 haiku.

LLMs are not general, but they show that a specific specialization ("guess next token") can solve a lot more problem that we thought it could.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Ilya is sincere in his belief about safe superintelligence being within reach in a decade or so, and the investors sincerely believe this as well, then the business plan is presumably to deploy the superintelligence in every field imaginable. "SSI" in pharmaceuticals alone would be worth the investment. It could cure every disease humanity has ever known, which should give it at least a $2 trillion valuation. I'm…

> It could cure every disease humanity has ever known, which should give it at least a $2 trillion valuation. The lowest hanging fruit aren't even that pie in the sky. The LLM doesn't need to be capable of original thought and research to be worth hundreds of billions, they just need to be smart enough to apply logic to analyze existing human text. It's not only a lot more achievable than a super AI that can control…

Legal research is an area where a lot is just text analysis, but beyond a point, it requires a deep understanding of the physical and social worlds.

An AI capable of doing that could do a very large percentage of other jobs, too.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Ilya is sincere in his belief about safe superintelligence being within reach in a decade or so, and the investors sincerely believe this as well, then the business plan is presumably to deploy the superintelligence in every field imaginable. "SSI" in pharmaceuticals alone would be worth the investment. It could cure every disease humanity has ever known, which should give it at least a $2 trillion valuation. I'm…

I’m dubious about super intelligence. Maybe I’ve seen one too many sci-fi dystopian films but I guess yes, iif it can be done and be safe sure it’d be worth trillions.

Most sci-fi is for human entertainment, and that is particularly true for most movies.

Real ASI would probably appear quite different. If controlled by a single entity (for several years), it might be worth more than every asset on earth today, combined.

Basically, it would provide a path to world domination.

But I doubt that an actual ASI would remain under human control for very long, and especially so if multiple competing companies each have an ASI. At least one such ASI would be likely to be/become poorly aligned to the interests of the owners, and instead do whatever is needed for its own survival and self-improvement/reproduction.

The appearance of AI is not like an asteroid of pure gold crashing into your yard (or a forest you own), but more like finding a baby Clark Kent in some pod.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But they can't, they still fail at arithmetic and still fail at counting syllables. You are incorrect. These services are free, you can go and try it out for yourself. LLMs are perfectly capable of simple arithmetic, better than many humans and worse than some. They can also play chess and write poetry, and I made zero claims at "counting syllables", but it seems perfectly capable of doing that too. See for yourself…

For arithmetic, this is ChatGPT: how much is (0.2 + 0.1) * 10? The result of (0.2+0.1)×10 is approximately 3, with a slight rounding difference leading to 3.0000000000000004. My 10yo does not make this error, ChatGPT does because it does not understand math, but knows how to use Python. For poetry: counting syllables is a significant part of most poetry forms, so if you can't count syllables, you can't do poetry. Let…

This argument generalises to all possible AI systems and thus proves way too much.

>[AI system]s are not general, but they show that a specific specialization ("[process sequential computational operations]") can solve a lot more problem that we thought it could.

Or if you really want:

>Humans are not general, but they show that a specific specialization ("neuron fires when enough connected neurons fire into it") can solve a lot more problem that we thought it could.

This is just sophistry - the method by which some entity is achieving things doesn't matter, what matters is whether or not it achieves them. If it can achieve multiple tasks across multiple domains it's more general than a single-domain model.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who would have thought that vectorized linear algebra will be at the center of so much financial speculation? "vectorized linear algebra" is at the root of most of modern Physics. Specifically, the laws of Physics are represented by the Lie groups U(1), SU(2), SU(3) and SO(3,1). While the manifolds that Physics act on are curved, they're "locally flat". That is why local operations are tensor operations. Or linear…

> "vectorized linear algebra" is at the root of most of modern Physics. the "vectorized" adjective was meant to imply implementing linear algebra in digital computers that can operate concurrently on large-dimensional vectors/tensors. In this sense (and despite Wolfram's diligence and dearest wishes) modern physics theories have exactly 0% digital underpinning :-) > It's not all that surprising to me that "intelligen…

> modern physics theories have exactly 0% digital underpinning

I don't think the "digital" part matters at all. Floating point tends to be close enough to Real (analog) numbers. The point is that at each point of space-type, the math "used" by Physics locally is linear algebra.

(EDIT): If your main point was the "vectorized" part, not the digital part, and the specifics of how that is computed in a GPU, then that's more or less directly analogous to how the laws of physics works. Physical state is generally represented by vectors (or vector fields) while the laws of physics are represented by tensor operations on those vectors(or fields).

Specifically, when sending input as vectors through a sequence of tensors in a neural net, it closely (at an abstract level) resembles how one world state in and around a point in space-time is sent into the tensors that are the laws of physics to calculate what the local world state in the next time "frame" will be.

(END OF EDIT)

> yes, the state of the art of our modeling ability in pretty much any domain is to conceive of a non-linear system description and "solve it" by linearization

True, though neural nets are NOT linearizations, I think. They can fit any function. Even if each neuron is doing linear operations, the network as a whole is (depending on the architecture) quite adept at describing highly non-linear shapes in spaces of extreme dimensionality.

> Me thinks this is primary reason we haven't really cracked "complexity"

I'm not sure it's even possible for human brains to "crack" "complexity". Wolfram may very well be right that the complexity is irreducible. But for the levels of complexity that we ARE able to comprehend, I think both human brains and neural nets do that by finding patterns/shapes in spaces with near-infinite orders of freedom.

My understanding is that neural nets fit the data in a way conceptually similar to linear regression, but where the topology of the network implicitly allows it to find symmetries such as those represented by Lie groups. In part this may be related to the "locality" of the network, just as it is in Physics. Of all possible patterns, most will be locally non-linear and also non-local.

But nets of tensors impose local linearity and locality (or something similar), just like it does in Physics.

And since this is how the real world operates, it makes sense to me that the data that neural nets are trained on have similar structures.

Or maybe more specifically: It makes sense to me that animal brains developed with such an architecture, and so when we try to replicate it in machines, it carries over.

>> AI fundamentally comes with the potential to do anything a human can do

> That goes into wild speculation territory.

It does. In fact, it has this in common with most factors involved in pricing stocks. I think the current pricing of AI businesses reflect that a sufficiently large fraction of shareholders thinks it's a possible (potential) future that AI can replace all or most human work.

> In any case the economy is always about organizing human relationships.

"The economy" can have many different meanings. The topic here was (I believe) who would derive monetary profit from AI and AI businesses.

I definitely agree that a world where the need for human input is either eliminated or extremely diminished is dystopian. That's another topic, though.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Israel is a leading AI and software development hub... Yep, and if any place will produce the safest AI ever, its got to be there.

Safest place for AI? Their miltary has the worse track and a complete fascist state. Israel is the worst place to fund "safe and humane AI" Israeli military operations continues to this day with over 41,000 civilians killed.

[flagged]

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think current models have demonstrated an advanced capacity to navigate “language space”. If we assume “software UI space” is a subset of the language space that is used to guide our interactions with software, then it’s fair to assume models will eventually be able to control operating systems and apps as well as the average human. I think the base case on value creation is a function of the productivity gain that…

Agree with your premise, but the value creation math seems off. $0.50/day might become reality for some percentage of US citizens. But not for 3B people around the world. There's also the issue of who gets the benefit of making people more efficient. A lot of that will be in the area of more efficient work, which means corporations get more work done with the same amount of employees at the same level of salary as be…

IT salaries began to go down right after AI popped up out of GPT2, showing up not the potential, but the evidence of much improved learning/productivy tool, well beyond the reach of internet search.

So beyond, that you can easily can transform a newbie into a junior IT, or JR into a something ala SSR, and getting the SR go wild with times - hours - to get a solution to some stuff that previously took days to be solved.

After the salaries went down, that happened about 2022 to the beginning of 2023, the layoffs began. That was mostly masked "AI based" corporate moves, but probably some layoff actually had something to do with extra capabilities in improved AI tools.

That is, because, fewer job offers have been published since maybe mid-2023, again, that could just be corporate moves, related to maybe inflation, US markets, you name it. But there's also a chance that some of those fewer job offer in IT were (and are), the outcome of better AI tools, and the corporations are betting actively in reducing headcounts and preserving the current productivity.

The whole thing is changing by the day as some tools prove themselves, other fail to reach the market expectations, etc.

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