This has been playing out for many years. And it's all because Brewster Kahle decided that an overly broad interpretation of the Internet Archive's mission trumped the rights of authors and publishers, and the laws of the United States. When IA was asked to stop CDL - many times - he continued. The National Writers Union tried to open a dialogue as early as 2010 but was ignored: The Internet Archive says it would rat…
The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
571–580 of 848 posts
Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
#572Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Courts won’t know the difference." Whether or not I'd suggest that if AI makes reverse-engineering easy (and I see no reason why it won't) then users will use it on an individual basis. Detecting the myriads of breaches would be a nightmare for any law/courts system. Ultimately, the paradigm will have to change.
We could also abolish copyrights for software in general and for everyone, including the tech giants.
Despite everything I've said here until now I'm not against creators receiving fair recompense for their efforts. What I'm against is the enormous inequity in copyright law which seriously disadvantages consumers. I believe it is not in the best economic or strategic interests of the nation for such inequity to exist—in fact, I reckon it's very damaging.
Solving the copyright problem won't be easy because it has its roots in a much bigger issue—that of social inequity and inequality.
Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
#573Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In his many interviews with U.S. media, he portrays the court cases and legal judgements as a crusade against the Internet Archive and all librarians. It's not. It's the logical outcome of one man's seemingly fanatical conviction against the law and the people who work very hard to bring new books into being. If IA had won, IA would be hailed as a cultural hero. They hit and they missed. Claiming Brewster Kahle is…
I agree with you about copyright, but the fact is that the IA never had a chance and we knew it years ago. The top comment on HN a week after their launch of the EL is critical [0], right at the moment when HN would be most expected to rally to their defense. By the time the lawsuit was actually starting to take shape most commenters had become very concerned for the fate of the IA [1]. This is on a forum that reliab…
Especially if a comment is thoughtfully written, contains multiple aspects and might just get upvotes for reasonably looking at both sides like in this thread. Being thoughtful, mindful, respecting and trying to not see something in black and white can get upvotes just for being like that. And that's just one tiny aspect of why top comment isn't necessarily the most popular argument. Timing (resulting in more views and possibly upvotes) and other facotrs all play a role (not sure how much this is mitigated by the ranking algorithm.
Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
#574At this point, the Internet Archive should consider simply moving to another jurisdiction. Decisions like this are a shame, because they hinder a proper way to deal with piracy. Physical libraries compete with book sales too, but of course libraries are lawful. Why should digital libraries be treated differently? Because there are ways to circumvent DRM on Internet Archive books? Well, there are ways to bypass DRM on…
>At this point, the Internet Archive should consider simply moving to another jurisdiction. Except international copyright treaties exist, which makes copyright enforcement effectively extraterritorial.
I’m not saying copyright is not enforced internationally; rather, IA’s perspective on copyright might be viewed more favorably in other countries.
Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
#575This struck me as significant (buried in the opinion's last footnote): "IA makes a final argument that, even if its Open Libraries project did not qualify as a fair use, we should restrict the injunction to the Open Libraries project and allow IA to continue CDL for books that IA itself owns. In support of that argument, IA argues that the fourth factor analysis would be more favorable if CDL were limited to IA’s own…
It's because of two primary points made elsewhere in the ruling.
1. Copyright law tolerates lending by libraries in the case of print books because those books eventually wear out. Digital copies, on the other hand, arguably do not wear out. Therefore, the court does not think that what is tolerated for print books should be tolerated for digital books. It does not address the fact that print books can be lent out hundreds or maybe even thousands of times before needing to be replaced, whereas some publishers are treating e-books as "wearing out" after about 25 reads, at which point the library has to renew its license.
2. Publishers have established a very profitable licensing arrangement with libraries for e-books, and CDL undercuts it. One could argue that if CDL had been an accepted fair-use exception from the beginning of digital lending, such a market would have never taken off, in which case the "CDL undercuts the market" argument would not have had the same weight. But here we are, like it or not, in a time when most of the major publishers have established these licensing terms, and so the court observes that a market exists that can be undercut.
Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
#576Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe a European country that gives much less shit?
Europe is not a third world country, where nobody gives a shit. It has laws and regulations like the US. Educate yourself.
Be kind. I think it was that dang fellow who said it. Yip here it is: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
In another life I'd be clever with you and say something to the effect that you should educate your own self, and read them. And then we would have our very own little reddit subthread here for our selves, and it would be my fault, and mine alone.
> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.
It's a lovely thought.
Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
#577IA could have implemented a situation where book pages could be read with the same copy limits local libraries implement and then point to where the book is sold or point to users local library where book could be checked out....
Instead IA pursued a strategy that would fail...and for what to put the IA mission in harm's way
Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
#578At this point, the Internet Archive should consider simply moving to another jurisdiction. Decisions like this are a shame, because they hinder a proper way to deal with piracy. Physical libraries compete with book sales too, but of course libraries are lawful. Why should digital libraries be treated differently? Because there are ways to circumvent DRM on Internet Archive books? Well, there are ways to bypass DRM on…
1) It's not "simply"
2) Moving to another jurisdiction makes things harder, not easier. You'd have to move all the servers and you'd lose almost all easy ways of receiving funds and donations. Ask websites on the brink of legality how much fun payment processing is (adult, piracy, IPTV providers,...).
Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
#579Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let's say we have a device that allows to view book pages over Internet without persistently storing it in any tangible medium (like a memory card). I.e. without "fixing" it permanently where "fixing" is defined in 17 US Code 101. And we use it to view books from a remote server. In this case it seems like we are not making a "copy"; we simply let user watch book stored on our server. So this should be legal?
As in, is it somehow different when the copy that gets transmitted to the user's computer is encoded images of the pages instead of encoded text of the pages? No. You are using the word 'view' to describe receiving a copy. Again: It doesn't matter whether the UX presents it as a copy. The data factually is copied, and that's all that matters.
Replace Internet with a video cable, and the device with a CRT TV. No copy is produced in this case.
Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
#580Earlier quoted context omitted.
What you describe as lending a digital copy, is making new copies. As a matter of engineering fact, the bytes were copied from one location to another; as a matter of black-letter law, that is making a copy in the sense that it is copyright infringement to do so without a license. That IA 'controlled' it to have only one outstanding copy at a time in hands other than theirs does not make it legal. The carveout saying…
if you wanna get into byte copying, from a legal view, isn't also copying from disk to memory a copy of the book then ?