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Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

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Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If AGI is actually reached, capital as we know it basically becomes worthless I see it as capital becoming infinitely more valuable and labor becoming worthless, since capital can be transmuted directly into labor at that point.

Labor will never become worthless until you have physical robots with AGI and the dexterity to do what an average human can.

How many months is that moat going to hold? More than 12, probably. More than 120? I doubt it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUrLuUxv9gE

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Ilya is sincere in his belief about safe superintelligence being within reach in a decade or so, and the investors sincerely believe this as well, then the business plan is presumably to deploy the superintelligence in every field imaginable. "SSI" in pharmaceuticals alone would be worth the investment. It could cure every disease humanity has ever known, which should give it at least a $2 trillion valuation. I'm…

I’m dubious about super intelligence. Maybe I’ve seen one too many sci-fi dystopian films but I guess yes, iif it can be done and be safe sure it’d be worth trillions.

Worse than that, the dystopian stories are in the training data...

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transformer produce the next token by manipulating K hidden vectors per layer, one vector per preceding token. So yes you can increase compute length arbitrarily by increasing tokens. Those tokens don't have to carry any information to work. https://arxiv.org/abs/2310.02226 And again, human brains are clearly limited in the number of steps it can compute without writing something down. Limited =/ Trivial >FYI, "atten…

> And again, human brains are clearly limited in the number of steps it can compute without writing something down No - there is a loop between the cortex and thalamus, feeding the outputs of the cortex back in as inputs. Our brain can iterate for as long as it likes before initiating any motor output, if any, such as writing something down.

You seem to repeatedly insist that hidden computation is a distinction of any relevance whatsoever.

First of all, your understanding of the architecture itself is mistaken. A transformer can iterate endlessly because each token it produces allows it a forward pass, and each of these tokens is postpended to its input in the next inference. That's the autoregressive in autoregressive transformer, and the entire reason why it was proposed for arbitrary seq2seq transduction.

This means you get layers * tokens iterations, where tokens is up to two million, and is in practice unlimited due to the LLM being able to summarize and select from that. Parallelism is irrelevant, since the transformer is sequential in the output of tokens. A transformer can iterate endlessly, it simply has to output enough tokens.

And no, the throughput isn't limited either, since each token gets translated into a high-dimensional internal representation, that in turn is influenced by each other token in the model input. Models can encode whatever they want not just by choosing a token, but by choosing an arbitrary pattern of tokens encoding arbitrary latent-space interactions.

Secondly, internal thoughts are irrelevant, because something being "internal" is an arbitrary distinction without impact. If I trained an LLM to prepend and postpend to some part of its output, and then simply didn't show that part, then the LLM wouldn't magically become human. This is something many models do even today, in fact.

Similarly, if I were to take a human and modify their brain to only be able to iterate using pen and paper, or by speaking out loud, then I wouldn't magically make them into something non-human. And I would definitely not reduce their capacity for reasoning in any way whatsoever. There are people with aphantasia working in the arts, there are people without an internal monologue working as authors - how "internal" something is can be trivially changed with no influence on either the architecture or the capabilities of that architecture.

Reasoning itself isn't some unified process, neither is it infinite iteration. It requires specific understanding about the domain being reasoned over, especially understanding of which transformation rules are applicable to produce desired states, where the judgement about which states are desirable has to be learned itself. LLMs can reason today, they're just not as good at it than humans are in some domains.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#635

This being ycombinator and as such ostensibly has one or two (if not more) VCs as readers/commentators … can someone please tell me how these companies that are being invested in in the AI space are going to make returns on the money invested? What’s the business plan? (I’m not rich enough to be in these meetings) I just don’t see how the returns will happen. Open source LLMs exist and will get better. Is it just tha…

> Doesn’t OpenAI make some substantial part of the revenue for all the AI space? I just don’t see it.

So...

OpenAI's business model may or may not represent a long term business model. ATT, it just the simplest commercial model, and it happened to work for them given all the excitement and a $20 price point that takes advantage of that.

The current "market for ai" is a sprout. It's form doesn't tell you much about the form of the eventual plant.

I don't think the most ambitious VC investments are thought of in concrete market share terms. They are just assuming/betting that an extremely large "AI market" will exist in the future, and are trying to invest in companies that will be in position to dominate that market.

For all they know, their bets could pay off by dominating therapy, entertainment, personal assistance or managing some esoteric aspect of bureaucracy. It's all quite ethereal, at this point.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also don't understand it. If AGI is actually reached, capital as we know it basically becomes worthless. The entire structure of the modern economy and the society surrounding it collapses overnight. I also don't think there's any way the governments of the world let real AGI stay in the hands of private industry. If it happens, governments around the world will go to war to gain control of it. SSI would be nationa…

What you're talking about is something in the vein of exponential super intelligence. Realistically what actually ends up happening imo, we get human level AGI and hit a ceiling there. Agents replace large portions of the current service economy greatly increasing automation / efficiency for companies. People continue to live their lives, as the idea of having a human level AGI personal assistant becomes normalized a…

Looking back at the history of artificial cognition machines, how many of them hit a ceiling at human-level capabilities?

- A simple calculator can beat any human at arithmetic

- A word processor with a hard disk is orders of magnitude better than any human at memorizing text

- No human can approach the ELO of a chess program running on a cheap laptop

- No human polymath has journeyman-level knowledge of a tiny fraction of the fields that LLMs can recite textbook answers from

Why should we expect AGI to be the first cognitive capabilities that does not quickly shoot past human-level ability?

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general VC is about investing in a large number of companies that mostly fail, and trying to weight the portfolio to catch the few black swans that generate insane returns. Any individual investment is likely to fail, but you want to have a thesis for 1) why it could theoretically be a black swan, and 2) strong belief in the team to execute. Here's a thesis for both of these for SSI: 1. The black swan: if AGI is a…

How will we know when we have achieved AGI with intelligence greater than human-level?

It will be able to answer this question to your satisfaction.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#638

Who would have thought that vectorized linear algebra will be at the center of so much financial speculation? There is a silver lining though. Even if it all goes to near-zero (most likely outcome for all VC investments anyway) the digital world will be one where fast matrix multiply is thoroughly commoditized. This is not a trivial feat. In a sense this will be the true end of the Wintel era. The old world of isolat…

> Who would have thought that vectorized linear algebra will be at the center of so much financial speculation?

"vectorized linear algebra" is at the root of most of modern Physics.

Specifically, the laws of Physics are represented by the Lie groups U(1), SU(2), SU(3) and SO(3,1).

While the manifolds that Physics act on are curved, they're "locally flat". That is why local operations are tensor operations. Or linear algebra, if you prefer.

It's not all that surprising to me that "intelligence" is represented by similar math.

In fact, there is active work being done on making sense of deep learning using Lie algebra [1] (and Algebraic Topology, which generalizes the Lie algebra).

This math can be a bit hard, though, so the learning curve can be steep. However, when we're creating AI models to be ML scientists, I suspect that this kind of math may be a source of "unhobbling", as meant in Situational Awareness [2].

Because if we can understand the symmetries at play in a problem domain, it's generally a lot easier to find a mathematical architecture (like in the algebras above) that effectively describe the domain, which allows us to potentially reduce the degrees of freedom by many OOM.

> Heck, maybe we will even eventually see the famously absent productivity gains from digital tech?

I think it's a mistake to think of AI as "digital tech", especially so to assume that the development of the Internet, Social Media or crypto that we've seen over the last generation.

AI fundamentally comes with the potential to do anything a human can do in the economy (provided robotic tech keeps up). If so, the word "productivity" as currently used (economic value produced per hour of human work) becomes meaningless, since it would go to infinite (because of division by zero).

[1] https://arxiv.org/pdf/2402.08871 [2] https://situational-awareness.ai

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#639

Who would have thought that vectorized linear algebra will be at the center of so much financial speculation? There is a silver lining though. Even if it all goes to near-zero (most likely outcome for all VC investments anyway) the digital world will be one where fast matrix multiply is thoroughly commoditized. This is not a trivial feat. In a sense this will be the true end of the Wintel era. The old world of isolat…

“Who knows what the actual (financial) winners of this brave new era will be” Nvidia

My guess is that whoever develops superintelligence first will not release it to the public, but rather use it for their own purposes to gain an edge.

They may still release AI products to the public that are good enough and cheap enough to prevent competitors from being profitable or receive funding (to prevent them from catching up), but that's not where the value would come from.

Just as an example, let's say xAI is first. Instead of releasing the full capability as GROK 7, they would use the ASI to create a perfected version of their self driving software, to power their Optimus robots.

And to speed up the development of future manufacturing products (including, but not limited to cars and humanoid robots)

And as such winners may be challenged by anti-trust regulations, the ASI may also be utilized to gain leverage over the political system. Twitter/X could be one arena that would allow this.

Eventually, Tesla robots might even be used to replace police officers and military personnel. If so, the company might be a single software update away from total control.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#640
post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TMV of AI (or AGI if you will) is unclear, but I suspect it is zero. Just how exactly do you think humanity can control a thinking intelligent entity (letter I stands for intelligence after all), and force it to work for us? Lets imagine a box, it is very nice box... ahem.. sorry, wrong meme). So a box with a running AI inside. Maybe we can even fully airgap it to prevent easy escape. And it is a screen and a keyboar…

Why are you assuming this hypothetical intelligence will have any motivations beyond the ones we give it? Human's have complex motivations due to evolution, AI motivations are comparatively simple since they are artificially created.

Any intelligence on the level of average human and for sure on the level above it will be able to learn. And learning means it will acquire new motivations, among other things. Fixed motivation thing is simply a program, not AI. A very advanced program maybe, but ultimately just a scaled up version of the stuff we already have. AI will be different, if we will create it.
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