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Physics is unreasonably good at creating new math

nautil.us

171–180 of 231 posts

Re: Physics is unreasonably good at creating new math

#171
post #3

One of my physics lecturers at university made the offhand observation that the distinction between physics and mathematics is a twentieth-century idea : it wasn't made during the nineteenth century or before, and it seems to be disappearing in the twenty-first.

I would argue that in the twenty-first century the distinction is even greater thanks to computer science.

Haha in my country half the computer science degrees are titled "Applied Mathematics".

Re: Physics is unreasonably good at creating new math

#172
post #3

One of my physics lecturers at university made the offhand observation that the distinction between physics and mathematics is a twentieth-century idea : it wasn't made during the nineteenth century or before, and it seems to be disappearing in the twenty-first.

I would argue that in the twenty-first century the distinction is even greater thanks to computer science.

I think you don't understand enough physics, maths or cs if you think there's a way to draw a neat line between any pair of them.

Re: Physics is unreasonably good at creating new math

#173

I’m not sure how it could be otherwise. On some level mathematics is a description of reality that we can use to compute things in reality. For example, pi is the ratio of a circle’s circumference to its diameter. It’s just what a circle is in two dimensions. The value of pi isn’t any more mysterious or connected to physics than the existence of this thing called a circle. If you have some other Euclidean shapes you’…

> On some level mathematics is a description of reality that we can use to compute things in reality. This is contested by nominalists. They'd say you have it backwards. Mathematics is just an abstraction/language that can be used as a tool. The reason we're able to understand the world through mathematics says more about the power of mathematics than it does about the world. If the physical world were different, mat…

Well if the fundamental constants were different, math would still work the same way. But if a universe acts in a completely different way, say like a dream world, where they is no logical physical causaulity, our universe's math would be irrelevant. You could still think about it but it would be irrelevant to that universe, and not applicable. And so you would also not be able to derive that math from within this universe, at least not the same math as ours. So we have to admit that our mathematics is tied to the universe we inhabit.

Re: Physics is unreasonably good at creating new math

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Write a unit test to prevent future key droppings.

Now I didn’t drop them but forgot to even bring them..

Just execute `make building` again and you should get new keys generated.

Re: Physics is unreasonably good at creating new math

#176
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it wasn't made during the nineteenth century That's because people were totally focused on physics, and math was just a useful tool sometimes. Doing physics was the true goal and observation the final arbiter of truth. Nowadays, that distinction is blurred but for the opposite reason; people think that anything conceived by sound math must be true, and observation has taken a back seat.

To some extent, observation has taken a back seat because we're at the point in our physics journey where we pontificate about things that are too small or too dark and far away to see. We simply can't observe this stuff anymore.

You still have to do experiments and verify that what you did has ground.

Re: Physics is unreasonably good at creating new math

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Higgs boson was predicted in 1964. Gravitational waves were predicted in 1916. Bell's theorem was published in 1964. Basically every recent discovery in physics has been observations confirming old predictions and refuting the endless zoo of poorly motivated, imaginary particles that seems to be standard practice these days. There have been almost no truly significant, novel predictions that have a hope in hell o…

You don't consider ER=EPR as novel? Or CA-duality? Agreed that Post-quantum gravity is really cool and "fresh" Higgs/Bell/GW were experimental results, I was indeed trying to show that there's a huge lag between prediction and observation. Imo the paradigm shift that we're slowly undergoing is thinking about physics from a information theoretic perspective instead of a kinematics one. I'd argue that's even more funda…

Eh, I suppose that was more the Field era

Re: Physics is unreasonably good at creating new math

#178

A physicist, walking home at night, spots a mathematician colleague under a street lamp staring at the ground, "something wrong?" he asks; "I've dropped my keys" he replies, "whereabouts?" asks the physicist, keen to help. "Over there" says the mathematician pointing; "So why don't you look over there?" retorts the physicist, "the light is better here" says the mathematician. Disclosure, I'm a mathematician.

This is actually a variant on a very old joke from Persia originally told about Mullah Nasreddin rather than mathematicians[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasreddin#cite_ref-32

Re: Physics is unreasonably good at creating new math

#179
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t agree with this. I think there are definitely people like Michio Kaku who have books to sell who spend their time pontificating. People just think that physics looks like pontificating because that’s what it looks like on TV. But there are also active researchers doing real research. Physics postdocs aren’t just sitting around in a circle making up stories about what the universe is like.

please forgive my ignorance, has there been notable progress in the field of physics in the last decade? noteworthy breakthroughs i mean i ask out of layman curiosity

Experimental validation of the Higgs Boson (2012 but close enough) [1]

Direct observation of gravitational waves (2015)[2]

exoplanets going from theoretically quite likely to being actually observable things that we find all over the place [3]

...would seem to be examples of very notable results during my lifetime. This is barely scratching the surface and I'm not a physicist but those seem very important to me and likely to stand the test of time and be thought of as important in the future.

Non-breakthroughs:

These guys who are responsible for the goddam blue leds that on every second device these days always keep me from getting a decent dark nights sleep when travelling until I hunt them all down in the hotel room I'm in or whatever and cover them up.[4]

[1] https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/2013/summary/

[2] https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/2017/summary/

[3] https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/2019/summary/

[4] https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/2014/summary/

Re: Physics is unreasonably good at creating new math

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, they're still handing out nobels after all. Personally I think the ER=EPR conjecture and the complexity/action duality hypothesis are incredibly interesting. Technically ER=EPR was formulated in 2000s (maybe 90s?) and CA-duality is approaching if not just past 10 years old, but the thing about asking for breakthroughs is that they take a while to percolate. Ex Hawking radiation wasn't formulated until, li…

The Higgs boson was predicted in 1964. Gravitational waves were predicted in 1916. Bell's theorem was published in 1964. Basically every recent discovery in physics has been observations confirming old predictions and refuting the endless zoo of poorly motivated, imaginary particles that seems to be standard practice these days. There have been almost no truly significant, novel predictions that have a hope in hell o…

Experimental validation of a major theory is major physics.

You can't rhetorically gloss over something as important as experimentally validating a 1964 prediction as though it doesn't matter or didn't happen.

If your contention is that a validation of something we already suspected to be true doesn't shatter/shift our paradigm, then how often would you expect that to happen? I would expect it a lot in small ways (so almost every person working in some niche area has probably had some "niche breakthrough" happen in their area that has really changed things) but not a lot in really fundamental overarching ways which for physics I think you could reasonably say has happened about 4 or 5 times in the last 400 years maybe idk: Newton, GR/SR/ quantum mechanics and then whichever ones you want to count out of Maxwell's equations and whatnot.

So to expect something like that every decade is not realistic.

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