Can someone explain if this will also affect archival projects hosted on the Internet Archive?
The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
461–470 of 848 posts
Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
#462This has been playing out for many years. And it's all because Brewster Kahle decided that an overly broad interpretation of the Internet Archive's mission trumped the rights of authors and publishers, and the laws of the United States. When IA was asked to stop CDL - many times - he continued. The National Writers Union tried to open a dialogue as early as 2010 but was ignored: The Internet Archive says it would rat…
Theres all that, but on the other hand, hes doing literally nothing wrong.
Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
#463Earlier quoted context omitted.
The ruling discusses this starting on page 33. The gist is that they set up a non-transformative service that is substantially equivalent to competing ebook services and CDLs, but unlike those it is not paying the customary price to publishers. It also discusses that there is a very good reason why digital libraries don't typically get to have perpetual rights to a work at the retail (or used) price for a print book.…
> Basically, physical books wear out with use, ebooks don't, so there's a built-in mechanism for revenue recurrence that happens with print books but not ebooks. As someone who understands the ruling and why IA lost completely, I still hate this argument, because it gets the history backwards. When first sale was put into (case)law, ebooks didn't exist. First sale doesn't exist because "oh, well, the book wears out e…
"the law decided that, no, there is no rights exhaustion whatsoever"
Ultimately, the law will either have to change to be fairer and recognize the buyer's investment or digital copying (piracy) will overwhelm it. It's not if but when (technology almost makes that axiomatic).
This will not happen immediately but as US influence in the world declines other fairer paradigms will emerge. As we've seen already, probably about one third of the planet's population pays little heed of copyright law, or it does so in name only—and that number will only increase with time (and as copying tech improves even further).
The US and Western countries have a choice, be fairer and less greedy or suffer the consequences.
Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
#464Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In his many interviews with U.S. media, he portrays the court cases and legal judgements as a crusade against the Internet Archive and all librarians. It's not. It's the logical outcome of one man's seemingly fanatical conviction against the law and the people who work very hard to bring new books into being. If IA had won, IA would be hailed as a cultural hero. They hit and they missed. Claiming Brewster Kahle is…
Except that IA is a non profit with a specific set of goals. Not only that but by the very nature of said goals (amongst others, preservation and archival of knowledge), they have to be even more prudent and have stability as one of their most important goals imo. Like, every goal they have becomes completely impossible to achieve without a very stable, long term outlook. "Hitting and missing" is usually fine, but it…
The Internet Archive should probably have, granting access to the data in the archive, as a core goal and calling that activism is bizarre to me.
Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
#465Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with you about copyright, but the fact is that the IA never had a chance and we knew it years ago. The top comment on HN a week after their launch of the EL is critical [0], right at the moment when HN would be most expected to rally to their defense. By the time the lawsuit was actually starting to take shape most commenters had become very concerned for the fate of the IA [1]. This is on a forum that reliab…
Ditto. Worth also noting is that IA lost the case by summary judgement. This usually means that the legal matter was so clear that the judge didn't even see a reason to start a trial. This judgement has now been confirmed on appeal. Just about any lawyer could have probably told them this was the inevitable outcome had they listened. I personally have donated previously to IA but now it frankly disgusts me that the p…
I think one has to be honest and realize that the desire of digital preservation stands in conflict with present day laws.
Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
#466Earlier quoted context omitted.
The people that would borrow the game from the library to play it might at best pirate it if they couldn’t get it from the library. Maybe they’d pay a few bucks tops rather than $60-80. Library game borrowers are not big game buyers in the first place. Games can and do already get around this anyway via software, if you want to argue the laws should work differently for them then I’m open to that, but I also don’t th…
If your goal is to prevent orphaned works there's much better and more targeted changes that could be made to the law! Don't need to throw out the baby with the bathwater. > Library game borrowers are not big game buyers in the first place. That's because today there is effectively no such thing as digital game borrowing. If there were then there would be a platform that seamlessly grants and revokes licenses on appl…
IA did not charge nor did they get revenue from their users in other ways. They did have a system to handle borrowing and make it cumbersome to read stuff. That is an important distinction.
Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
#467Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here ya go: https://archive.org/details/super-mario-bros.-wonder-nspe-sh... Note to dang and friends: Not condoning piracy or whatever, this is simply to prove a point that Internet Archive hosts and distributes warez with wanton abandon.
I’m kind of curious how this indicates “wanton abandon” Have you downloaded and checked this file to make sure that it is a playable copy of Super Mario Wonder rather than some other file labeled as such? Have you reported it, and if so how long ago?
All you have to do to find warez of all sorts is take a casual browse through their software library.
Most of it is actually supplied by ordinary users unrelated to Internet Archive with little to no oversight or curation. I have no idea how effective reporting is, but I would bet it's not meaningful given the prevailing prevalence of warez.
And yes, I've downloaded some of those warez and they have all worked.
I would advise not white knighting for Internet Archive and instead judge them for what they actually are.
I honestly think the software library is actually a far bigger liability risk than the book piracy scheme. Software developers and publishers are just as vindicative as book authors and publishers if you paint a big enough target on your stupid ass and there's a lot more dollars at play.
Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
#468Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m getting a “no results found” response from that search. Maybe it has already been taken down?
Here ya go: https://archive.org/details/super-mario-bros.-wonder-nspe-sh... Note to dang and friends: Not condoning piracy or whatever, this is simply to prove a point that Internet Archive hosts and distributes warez with wanton abandon.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Super+Mario+Bros.+Wonder+%28...
Second link on the page. How is this warez distributor still online?
Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
#469Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In his many interviews with U.S. media, he portrays the court cases and legal judgements as a crusade against the Internet Archive and all librarians. It's not. It's the logical outcome of one man's seemingly fanatical conviction against the law and the people who work very hard to bring new books into being. If IA had won, IA would be hailed as a cultural hero. They hit and they missed. Claiming Brewster Kahle is…
> If IA had won, IA would be hailed as a cultural hero This is ends justifying the means logic. (More accurately, it is showboating.) Let’s concede for the sake of argument what they wanted to do was unarguably good. It’s still an astronomical long shot. And one with real costs, financial and institutional. IA incurred those costs, and in the process not only destroyed the library but set a harmful precedent. They th…
I honestly think what IA did was vital for their survival. The IA can not exist without the media library.
I see that many people here do not care about IA and their goal. I am not sure why that is. Maybe HN is filled with people in places were access to books is easy and think that there is an alternative. What IA did was the only sane option, I agree that it was bound to be destroyed the same way Google Books was.
Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive
#470Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ditto. Worth also noting is that IA lost the case by summary judgement. This usually means that the legal matter was so clear that the judge didn't even see a reason to start a trial. This judgement has now been confirmed on appeal. Just about any lawyer could have probably told them this was the inevitable outcome had they listened. I personally have donated previously to IA but now it frankly disgusts me that the p…
I think one has to be honest and realize that the desire of digital preservation stands in conflict with present day laws.
Yes, but this case was not about digital presevation but lending out scanned traditional books without proper controls, presented as some sort of a social welfare project. Choose your battles.