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Dynamicland 2024

dynamicland.org

101–110 of 202 posts

Re: Dynamicland 2024

#101

Kudos to Bret and all the best to the communal computing community (pun intended) hopefully this takes the cyber physical system including IoT and machine-to-machine to another (useful) level. >Anyone can change any program at any time, and see the changes immediately Not sure what programming language Bret implementing the system but recently there's discussion how difficult and how slow to parse/compile some of the…

Smalltalk. I used to run a server in Smalltalk and if it had an error it would halt, I could debug where it halted, I could change the code and restart. The client would not know, unless my fixing it took too long.

Re: Dynamicland 2024

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you can look at some of the other replies in this thread to see how deeply this can be misunderstood. And I think the fear is more about losing the meaning of dynamicland. The source code isn't the idea, the idea is. That's what needs to be communicated. The web page is huge, though, with an unbelievable amount of information if you want to build your own. https://dynamicland.org/archive/2023/Front_shelf

there's also a much deeper explanation of the why here: https://dynamicland.org/2024/Is_Realtalk_open_source/

I don’t like the answers they give on that page. Every single one feels like a dodge.

Re: Dynamicland 2024

#104

Very cool. I do believe physical embodiment of computers is the future and the current screen/GUI paradigm will decline, but the embodiment will be different. The physically embodied computer of the future will be a humanoid robot, and we will interact with it the same way we do with humans: by gesturing and speaking. There will always be a place for screens, just as there is still a place for books, but we will have…

> The physically embodied computer of the future will be a humanoid robot, and we will interact with it the same way we do with humans: by gesturing and speaking.

I disagree.

First of all, there's nothing particularly "physically embodied" about talking and gesturing at a robot. You can do that just as well with a screen showing a virtual robot and a camera with gesture recognition. Unless you're touching the robot, it doesn't have a body that's meaningfully interactive.

Second, for many human endeavors, social interaction is not the primary way most people pursue it or want to pursue it. Yes, there are definitely some people with, say, an "executive mindset" who love social interaction so much that they want that to be all they do all day every day.

But for many people, the activities they enjoy most are ones that involve solitary direct manipulation. If I'm going fishing, I want to cast the lure myself and feel the snap of it thrum through the rod. I want to feel the tension on the line when a fish bites. Waving at a robot and asking it to catch me a fish would be a strictly, catastrophically inferior experience.

What is gardening if your hands don't get dirty or woodworking if you don't come home smelling like wood shavings?

Here's a way to look at it: When people retire and no longer need to choose their activities based on financial need, how much time to they often end up spending giving instructions to people? I hear a lot of retirees puttering in their garden, playing board games, tinkering on an old motorcycle, or getting better at guitar. Some definitely do join community organizations too, but humans are as much a tool-using species as a social one.

Re: Dynamicland 2024

#105
post #84
post #62

As cool as Dynamicland is, I still don’t get why they won’t open source it or at least release it in some form. I’ve heard various people give roundabout excuses, but none of them hold water. They often fall into one of the following categories: - “People won’t get the core ideas and will use it to make things that go against the core ideas” — People who care about Bret Victor’s work will take the time to learn the i…

> - “People won’t get the core ideas and will use it to make things that go against the core ideas” — People who care about Bret Victor’s work will take the time to learn the ideas. People who don’t might try and make something Bret doesn’t like, but currently the world is full of things Bret doesn’t like, so I don’t get how that would be different than the status quo. I think the problem is like what happened to "ag…

So their antidote is just preventing the idea from gaining traction in the first place? Like, that will certainly prevent it from being misinterpreted the way Agile has been, but it will also ensure no one can use their idea at all.

Re: Dynamicland 2024

#106

For those unfamiliar, the founder is Bret Victor. He made a name for himself working on human interfaces at Apple in the Steve Jobs iPad era. In 2012, he gave a couple of influential talks: Inventing on Principle, and Stop Drawing Dead Fish. Bret's take on being a visionary/futurist is fascinating. He imagines the near-future world he wants to live in, prototypes enough of it to write a talk about, and gives the talk…

that approach seems so off... i'm curious how it's justified. like countless hundreds of quotes on execution vs ideas, here is one: "Ideas don’t make you rich. The correct execution of ideas does." anyways, i'm gonna spend a little more time this evening to really dig in.

I assume his point is that he's not going to be able to execute on all his ideas anyway, so why not make them free to people who might? If the idea succeeds, the benefit to him is a better world, while the cost is nothing. It's a positive-sum proposition, what's not to like?

Re: Dynamicland 2024

#107
I used to think Bret Victor's work is cool but how exactly do we build all these seemingly ad-hoc interactions into systems? one-by-one? Maybe generative code AI can do it on-demand one day?

Re: Dynamicland 2024

#108
post #62

As cool as Dynamicland is, I still don’t get why they won’t open source it or at least release it in some form. I’ve heard various people give roundabout excuses, but none of them hold water. They often fall into one of the following categories: - “People won’t get the core ideas and will use it to make things that go against the core ideas” — People who care about Bret Victor’s work will take the time to learn the i…

I think you can look at some of the other replies in this thread to see how deeply this can be misunderstood. And I think the fear is more about losing the meaning of dynamicland. The source code isn't the idea, the idea is. That's what needs to be communicated. The web page is huge, though, with an unbelievable amount of information if you want to build your own. https://dynamicland.org/archive/2023/Front_shelf

So like, if they want me to reverse engineer Dynamicland and make my own, fine. But I’m WAY more likely to misunderstand what it’s about through reverse engineering it than I would be if I had actual source code I could study. I’m sure there’s some truly revelatory stuff in the architecture of RealTalk OS, and a reimplementation would be missing all that.

If what they want is for people to try and reimplement Dynamicland without their guidance, then they’re certainly doing the right things. But if their goal is to convert people to a new way of thinking about computing, this is not a great approach.

Re: Dynamicland 2024

#109
post #94

I wonder whether someone already has build away to create modular synthesizer using block with knobs on the table. A line on the top of the knob would signal its position. (In the video I saw some shots that looked like sequencers.) You would also need some mechanism to connect the modules together. I played around with VCV Rack [1], but adjusting knobs with a mouse feels very different than using your hands to turn…

related: https://dynamicland.org/archive/2023/MIDI

Re: Dynamicland 2024

#110

I spent quite a lot of time at Dynamicland Oakland. It's great fun and the people are just wonderful. I think of Realtalk as adding another layer to programs, the Physical Layer. Program behavior can be determined and controlled by physical layout as well as code. It's not completely unlike a frontend/backend distinction, and in fact you could make a Realtalk simulator using a javascript canvas much more easily than…

related: https://dynamicland.org/2024/FAQ/#What_is_Realtalks_relation...
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