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Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

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Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#491
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Closest thing we have to a Manhattan Project in the modern era? Minus the urgency, scientific process, well-defined goals, target dates, public ownership, accountability...

Well-defined goal is the big one. We wanted a big bomb. What does AGI do? AGI is up against a philosophical barrier, not a technical one. We'll continue improving AI's ability to automate and assist human decisions, but how does it become something more? Something more "general"?

"General" is every activity a human can do or learn to do. It was coined along with "narrow" to contrast with the then decidedly non-general AI systems. This was generally conceived of as a strict binary - every AI we've made is narrow, whereas humans are general, able to do a wide variety of tasks and do things like transfer learning, and the thinking was that we were missing some grand learning algorithm that would create a protointelligence which would be "general at birth" like a human baby, able to learn anything & everything in theory. An example of an AI system that is considered narrow is a calculator, or a chess engine - these are already superhuman in intelligence, in that they can perform their tasks better than any human ever possibly could, but a calculator or a chess engine is so narrow that it seems absurd to think of asking a calculator for an example of a healthy meal plan, or asking a chess engine to make sense of an expense report, or asking anything to write a memoir. Even in more modern times, with AlexNet we had a very impressive image recognition AI system, but it couldn't calculate large numbers or win a game of chess or write poetry - it was impressive, but still narrow.

With transformers, demonstrated first by LLMs, I think we've shown that the narrow-general divide as a strict binary is the wrong way to think about AI. Instead, LLMs are obviously more general than any previous AI system, in that they can do math or play chess or write a poem, all using the same system. They aren't as good as our existing superhuman computer systems at these tasks (aside from language processing, which they are SOTA at), not even as good at humans, but they're obviously much better than chance. With training to use tools (like calculators and chess engines) you can easily make an AI system with an LLM component that's superhuman in those fields, but there are still things that LLMs cannot do as well as humans, even when using tools, so they are not fully general. One example is making tools for themselves to use - they can do a lot of parts of that work, but I haven't seen an example yet of an LLM actually making a tool for itself that it can then use to solve a problem it otherwise couldn't. This is a subproblem of the larger "LLMs don't have long term memory and long term planning abilities" problem - you can ask an LLM to use python to make a little tool for itself to do one specific task, but it's not yet capable of adding that tool to its general toolset to enhance its general capabilities going forward. It can't write a memoir, or a book that people want to read, because they suck at planning or refining from drafts, and they have limited creativity because they're typically a blank slate in terms of explicit memory before they're asked to write - they have a gargantuan of implicitly remembered things from training, which is where what creativity they do have comes from, but they don't yet have a way to accrue and benefit from experience.

A thought exercise I think is helpful for understanding what the "AGI" benchmark should mean is: can this AI system be a drop-in substitute for a remote worker? As in, any labour that can be accomplished by a remote worker can be performed by it, including learning on the job to do different or new tasks, and including "designing and building AI systems". Such a system would be extremely economically valuable, and I think it should meet the bar of "AGI".

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The brain's ability to iterate on information is still constrained by certain cognitive limitations like working memory capacity and attention span. In practice, the cortex-thalamus loop allows for some degree of internal iteration, but the brain cannot endlessly iterate without some form of external aid (e.g., writing something down) to offload information and prevent cognitive overload. I'm not telling you anything…

What's your point? The discussion is about the architecturally imposed limitations of LLMs, resulting in capabilities that are way less than that of a brain. The fact that the brain has it's own limits doesn't somehow negate this fact!

My point is that for some bizare reason, people have standards of reasoning (for machines) that only exist in fiction or their own imagination.

It is beyond silly to dump an architecture for a limitation the human brain has. A reasoning engine that can iterate indefinitely with no external aid does not exist in real life. That the transformer also has this weakness is not any reason for it to have capabilities less than a brain so it's completely moot.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this any different than the (lack of) business model of all the voice assistants? How good does it have to be, how many features does it have to have, how accurate does its need to be.. in order for people to pay anything? And how much are people actually willing to spend against the $XX Billion of investment? Again it just seems like "sell to AAPL/GOOG/MSFT and let them figure it out".

> How is this any different than the (lack of) business model of all the voice assistants? Voice assistants do a small subset of the things you can already do easily on your phone. Competing with things you can already do easily on your phone is very hard; touch interfaces are extremely accessible, in many ways more accessible than voice. Current voice assistants only being able to do a small subset of that makes the…

OK so bull case on LLMs now is inclusive of "substantially rewriting all the worlds software to expose functionality to them via APIs" ?

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#494
post #47

Same funding as OpenAI when they started, but SSI explicitly declared their intention not to release a single product until superintelligence is reached. Closest thing we have to a Manhattan Project in the modern era?

There is significant possibility that true AI (what Ilia calls superintelligence) is impossible to build using neural networks. So it is closer to some tokenbro project than to nuclear research. Or he will simply shift goalposts, and call some LLM superintelligent.

Majority of ML these days is tokenbro projects, make of that what you will...

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#495
post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this any different than the (lack of) business model of all the voice assistants? How good does it have to be, how many features does it have to have, how accurate does its need to be.. in order for people to pay anything? And how much are people actually willing to spend against the $XX Billion of investment? Again it just seems like "sell to AAPL/GOOG/MSFT and let them figure it out".

> How is this any different than the (lack of) business model of all the voice assistants? Feels very different to me. The dominant ones are run by Google, Apple, and Amazon, and the voice assistants are mostly add-on features that don't by themselves generate much (if any) revenue (well, aside from the news that Amazon wants to start charging for a more advanced Alexa). The business model there is more like "we need…

Hard to see normies signing up for monthly subs to VC funded AI startups when a surprisingly large % still are resistant to paying AAPL/GOOG for email/storage/etc. Getting a $10/mo uplift for AI functionality to your iCloud/GSuite/Office365/Prime is a hard enough sell as it stands.

And again this against CapEx of something like $200B means $100/year per user is practically rounding to 0.

Not to mention the OpEx to actually run the inference/services on top ongoing.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTX was incredibly profitable, and their main competitor Binance is today a money printing machine. FTX failed because of fraud and embezzlement, not because their core business was failing.

FTX itself was profitable, but that's because Alameda Research was selling dollars for 80 cents, and all the other traders were paying FTX fees to rip off Alameda. Unfortunately, Alameda was running on FTX customer money.

20 GOTO 10 ?

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair Enough. Then increase N (N is almost always increased when a model is scaled up) and train or write things down and continue. A limitless iteration machine (without external aid) is currently an idea of fiction. Brains can't do it so I'm not particularly worried if machines can't either.

Increasing number of layers isn't a smart way to solve it. It order to be able to reason effectively and efficiently the model needs to use as much, or as little, compute as needed for a given task. Completing "1+1=" should take less compute steps than "A winning sequence for white here is ...". This lack of "variable compute" is a widely recognized shortcoming of transformer-based LLMs, and there are plenty of other…

>Increasing number of layers isn't a smart way to solve it.

The "smart way" is a luxury. Solving the problem is what matters. Think of a smart way later if you can. That's how a lot of technological advancement has worked.

>It order to be able to reason effectively and efficiently the model needs to use as much, or as little, compute as needed for a given task. Completing "1+1=" should take less compute steps than "A winning sequence for white here is ...".

Same thing. Efficiency is nice but a secondary concern.

>If the generating process required variable compute (maybe 1000's of steps) - e.g. to come up with a chess move - then no amount of training can make the LLM converge to model this generative process.

Every inference problem has itself a fixed number of compute steps it needs (yes even your chess move). Variability is a nice thing for between inferences(maybe move 1 required 500 but 2 only 240 etc) A nice thing but never a necessary thing.

3.5-turbo-instruct plays chess consistently at 1800 Elo so clearly the N of the current SOTA is already enough to play non-trivial chess at a level beyond most humans.

There is an N large enough for every GI problem humans care about. Not to sound like a broken record but once again, limited =/ trivial.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is this any different than the (lack of) business model of all the voice assistants? Voice assistants do a small subset of the things you can already do easily on your phone. Competing with things you can already do easily on your phone is very hard; touch interfaces are extremely accessible, in many ways more accessible than voice. Current voice assistants only being able to do a small subset of that makes the…

OK so bull case on LLMs now is inclusive of "substantially rewriting all the worlds software to expose functionality to them via APIs" ?

"The AI will do the coding for that!"

or

"Imagine an AI that can just use the regular human-optimized UI!"

These are things VCs will say in order to pump the current gen AI. Note that current gen AI kinda suck at those things.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#499
post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The TMV (Total Market Value) of solving AGI is infinity. And furthermore, if AGI is solved, the TMV of pretty much everything else drops to zero. I feel like these extreme numbers are a pretty obvious clue that we’re talking about something that is completely imaginary. Like I could put “perpetual motion machine” into those sentences and the same logic holds.

It's not crazy to believe that capitalizing* human-level intelligence would reap unimaginably large financial rewards. *Capitalizing as in turning into an owned capital asset that throws off income.

We already have human-level intelligence in HUMANS right now, the hack is that the wealthy want to get rid of the human part! It's not crazy, it's sad to think that humans are trying to "capitalize" human intelligence, rather than help real humans.

Re: Ilya Sutskever's SSI Inc raises $1B

#500
post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK so bull case on LLMs now is inclusive of "substantially rewriting all the worlds software to expose functionality to them via APIs" ?

"The AI will do the coding for that!" or "Imagine an AI that can just use the regular human-optimized UI!" These are things VCs will say in order to pump the current gen AI. Note that current gen AI kinda suck at those things.

They've already started moving back from Miami since the last fad pump (crypto) imploded. Don't ruin this for them.
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