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Windows Phone 8 vs. iOS vs. Android: One giant leap for Microsoft

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Re: Windows Phone 8 vs. iOS vs. Android: One giant leap for Microsoft

#61

Post by wtallis »

Mythrl wrote: post #59
wtallis wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not evidence, that's just a claim from Microsoft's marketing. The code-sharing doesn't apply to any current desktop applications - it only applies to the hypothetical future Metro-based desktop apps. And it's irrelevant anyways. You can't expect a user to stick with an incomplete platform when there is viable competition, based solely on promises that the situation will improve. In fact, since Microsoft has an…

I wouldn't call engineering your entire OS to be able to share code between devices as irrelevant, nor would I characterize it as something that is done for a quick marketing line. Making this change likely involves significant capital cost investment that is not done lightly and without a great deal of forethought. You think it's a coincidence that this gets announced 2 days after the Surface (which is clearly a bri…

You're still missing the point that it's never premature to complain that a shipping mobile platform has too few third-party apps. It doesn't matter whether a platform is brand-new or two years old, having no apps is a real competitive disadvantage that will have the real-world effect of warding off potential customers, and no forward-looking statements about what will happen next year can make the problem go away. The only solution to the problem is to build a large app library. Microsoft may be well-poised to make the problem go away within the next two years, but in the meantime, their mobile offering will be lackluster.

Re: Windows Phone 8 vs. iOS vs. Android: One giant leap for Microsoft

#62

Post by Mythrl »

wtallis wrote: post #61
Mythrl wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call engineering your entire OS to be able to share code between devices as irrelevant, nor would I characterize it as something that is done for a quick marketing line. Making this change likely involves significant capital cost investment that is not done lightly and without a great deal of forethought. You think it's a coincidence that this gets announced 2 days after the Surface (which is clearly a bri…

You're still missing the point that it's never premature to complain that a shipping mobile platform has too few third-party apps. It doesn't matter whether a platform is brand-new or two years old, having no apps is a real competitive disadvantage that will have the real-world effect of warding off potential customers, and no forward-looking statements about what will happen next year can make the problem go away. T…

I'm not missing the point. I just disagree that for the next two years their app offerings will be lackluster. And my reason for that disagreement is the fact that they are converging their platform to run on all systems (desktop, laptop, tablet, phone and console).

Keep in mind this change almost instantly increases the potential market a phone app developer can tap into because it will be available to desktop users as well. You've just gone from developing for WP7 users, to every Win 8 user. That is an order of magnitude increase. Add to that XBox users.

I think Microsoft will catch up much faster than most people anticipate.

Edit: Ok I will rephrase the premature thing: Experience of using the phone from 1 year ago is not a valid criticism of the ecosystem today. Even less so for a new ecosystem that is not going to be released for another 3-6 months.

Re: Windows Phone 8 vs. iOS vs. Android: One giant leap for Microsoft

#63

Post by wtallis »

Mythrl wrote: post #62
wtallis wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're still missing the point that it's never premature to complain that a shipping mobile platform has too few third-party apps. It doesn't matter whether a platform is brand-new or two years old, having no apps is a real competitive disadvantage that will have the real-world effect of warding off potential customers, and no forward-looking statements about what will happen next year can make the problem go away. T…

I'm not missing the point. I just disagree that for the next two years their app offerings will be lackluster. And my reason for that disagreement is the fact that they are converging their platform to run on all systems (desktop, laptop, tablet, phone and console). Keep in mind this change almost instantly increases the potential market a phone app developer can tap into because it will be available to desktop users…

No matter how many different platforms developers can target with a Win8 Metro app, the starting number of third-party apps for that platform is zero. There are no current Windows 7 desktop or phone apps or XBLA apps that will run on a Win8 phone. In some cases, porting will probably be easier than it otherwise would be, but it's still going to take some work.

Any game that already runs on smartphones will need to replace OpenGL ES with DirectX, and any app that currently runs on a Microsoft platform will need to be re-designed to work on a touchscreen, and still probably also re-write the whole GUI to use Metro.

The best that Microsoft can expect with Win8 as they are currently planning is for the first several months of app releases to be hasty ports that get their platform some credibility but don't actually make it look better than the alternatives, with good apps starting to show up by the end of the first year. But there's no way they'll close the gap quickly with anything other than badly-ported apps.

And in the meantime, barring massive bribery/subsidies from Microsoft, the only people who will be buying Windows phones are "early adopters" who just want to play with something different. That crowd isn't big enough to fund direct competition with Android and iOS.

Re: Windows Phone 8 vs. iOS vs. Android: One giant leap for Microsoft

#64

Post by zanny »

untog wrote: post #16
zanny wrote: post #12

One giant leap for Microsoft that I won't touch with a 5 meter stick because the company has way too much of a treasure chest of influence to ever get my money ever again, and one that I will continuously tell anyone I am related to or friends with never to associate with. The secure boot nonsense doesn't help. The image of M$ is destroyed, and even if they try to repair it I can never forgive them for ie6.

And there I was, thinking that HN is above using "M$". Do Apple and Google not also have a "treasure chest of influence"?

Absolutely, they are all massive corporations. They are beyond the scale anyone can reasonably expect a company to act in the interests of their customers.

I'm not saying Microsoft is evil - they are just a massive company, who like Apple is controlled by shareholders and therefor maximizes profit at the expense of everything around them.

I have no idea what is going on with Google. Android 3.0 and the unified privacy plans being closed source seems like a good example of how their benevolence may only be skin deep, but they have acted "better" than the others at some superficial level. They are still absurdly powerful and I would always be hesitant to give them money, because companies like all three can turn around and use that absurd influence to harm consumers.

Re: Windows Phone 8 vs. iOS vs. Android: One giant leap for Microsoft

#65

Post by nkerkin »

meepmorp wrote: post #39
pilgrim689 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's subjective, but you would be in the minority [1] for thinking Metro UI is a "unicorn vomit/rainbow disaster". [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_UI#Response

I hate the Metro UI. I hate the live tiles,I hate the way text seems to drift off the edge of the screen; I hate the way it looks, and navigating through it annoyed me. I've only ever seen it on a phone, though, so maybe a tablet would improve things. I'm not a UI expert, so maybe I'm missing something awesome. I am, however, a user of consumer electronics, and as far as that qualifies me to comment, I think it looks…

Haters gonna hate. Having used (and developed for) Palm, WM6, Symbian, Android and iOS over the years, I find WP7 to be the most joyful, intuitive OS I have ever used.

Have you used WP7 for any amount of time or just seen screenshots? If so, I'm genuinely interested in why you hate it so much. The "text seems to drift" is an excellent UI/Navigation feature, it combines the title of the page AND indicates which tab you are on, rather than having a little row of dots.

Re: Windows Phone 8 vs. iOS vs. Android: One giant leap for Microsoft

#66

Post by nkerkin »

cmelbye wrote: post #50
pilgrim689 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's subjective, but you would be in the minority [1] for thinking Metro UI is a "unicorn vomit/rainbow disaster". [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_UI#Response

I think he/she is talking about the screenshots of the new start screen that accompanied the announcement. Personally, I love the current WP7 and I thought that the new screen ditched a lot of the simplicity and looked very busy and unattractive.

Agreed. The fixed size live tiles differentiated WP7 from the others. Now they just look like android widgets, albeit with more consistent styling.

Re: Windows Phone 8 vs. iOS vs. Android: One giant leap for Microsoft

#67

Post by Gal3rielol »

kpeel wrote: post #27
redsymbol wrote: post #24

With the recent WP8 press coverage, it's interesting (from a PR perspective) that many stories complain about WP7 phones not being upgraded. Some tech journalists seem almost angry about it. I don't know if this will die down or not; that's what eventually happened when Google revealed the Nexus 1 (iirc) wouldn't be upgradable to 4.0. So far, though, this point is significantly distracting from the amazing improvemen…

They should have done the upgrade like Apple. Everyone gets the upgrade, but not everyone gets all of the features of the upgrade (e.g. I got iOS 5, but not Siri). It sounds like they're doing just this in spirit by backporting some features to Windows 7, but calling it Windows 7.8 instead of Windows 8. Marketing mistake?

No, it is different. The 3GS still can run the apps designed for iOS6 because the OS support the new APIs. It just lacks of some functions compared to the newer devices. However, the WP7 devices can no more run the apps designed for WP8 which means that the WP7 platform has been abandoned.

Re: Windows Phone 8 vs. iOS vs. Android: One giant leap for Microsoft

#68

Post by deepGem »

recoiledsnake wrote: post #25
deepGem wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come to think of it. You can't share a video on youtube from a WP7 phone. The default option is Skydrive.

From Microsoft's antitrust complaint from last year. http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_on_the_issues/archive/2... First, in 2006 Google acquired YouTube—and since then it has put in place a growing number of technical measures to restrict competing search engines from properly accessing it for their search results. Without proper access to YouTube, Bing and other search engines cannot stand with Google on an equal…

Thanks for the post. It's really sad that Google will not expose basic metadata, for enabling users to share videos on WP7.

Re: Windows Phone 8 vs. iOS vs. Android: One giant leap for Microsoft

#69

Post by laacz »

It is quite possible, that Microsoft move with releasing Windows Phone 7 was just an expensive way to make Nokia buy in. Nokia would not wait for Windows8, if there was no Windows7 Phone . Now they must. And Microsoft probably never looked at Windows Phone 7 as a long-term OS.

Re: Windows Phone 8 vs. iOS vs. Android: One giant leap for Microsoft

#70

Post by ericcholis »

hammersend wrote: post #56
ericcholis wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Just because I can use a hammer, doesn't mean I can build a house". Android opens up the entire tool box for you and expects you to be a responsible designer. Problem is, not everybody has the skills to do effective UX. Just because it's pretty, doesn't make it usable. This can tarnish the platform experience. Part of Apple's strength in their walled-garden is that they have created an ecosystem of design. Google tr…

"This can tarnish the platform experience." Yeah, the Android experience is so "tarnished" that the OS ships on almost a million phones a day. Did you ever consider the possibility that the majority of consumers have a different opinion of what is useable than you?

The stock android experience is amazing, and there are plenty of outstanding apps for the platform. However, I'm talking about setting and enforcing design standards. Android has yet to do that successfully.

Also, I said "can" tarnish the platform experience, not "will" or "did". Ask a professional designer to compare the general style and branding of the WP, Apple, and Android platforms. They will likely tell you that there is a clear cohesion between Apple apps.

Android ships on an incredible amount of phones because of availability. How many free iPhones do you get on activation? It's a cheap (and good) platform for a carrier and vendors to use. Thus, the volume of Android devices is high. Furthermore, volume shipped has almost nothing to do with usability. How many different vendors have created their own UI for Android?

P.S. I'm not an apple fanboy. I have a Droid X and a Kindle Fire, both rooted and toyed with various ROMs.

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