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The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

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Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#181

Post by fngjdflmdflg »

ilamont wrote: post #52

This has been playing out for many years. And it's all because Brewster Kahle decided that an overly broad interpretation of the Internet Archive's mission trumped the rights of authors and publishers, and the laws of the United States. When IA was asked to stop CDL - many times - he continued. The National Writers Union tried to open a dialogue as early as 2010 but was ignored: The Internet Archive says it would rat…

You also forgot the national emergency library thing which only made his position more unworkable with current copyright law.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#182

Post by paulryanrogers »

elaus wrote: post #160
xhkkffbf wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This court ruling was (also) about "CDL" (controlled digital lending), i.e. lending ONE digital copy of a book for each physical book in a library's possession – and only while the physical copy was not lent. This is as far away from "giving away infinite copies to anyone" as it could be.

While I agree with your point, there is some nuance because transfers can be nearly instantaneous. Physical books have to be transported to and from the library. CDL is as if we all lived in the same library and could shelve/swap books with anyone at any moment and only have to wait when there is a queue.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#183

Post by pavon »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #66
ilamont wrote: post #52

This has been playing out for many years. And it's all because Brewster Kahle decided that an overly broad interpretation of the Internet Archive's mission trumped the rights of authors and publishers, and the laws of the United States. When IA was asked to stop CDL - many times - he continued. The National Writers Union tried to open a dialogue as early as 2010 but was ignored: The Internet Archive says it would rat…

So, this case was not about CDL (Controlled Digital Lending). It was about DL with the "C" removed. Specifically the IA's previous CDL program only lent out one electronic copy at a time per physical copy held, and this case is about a program at beginning of pandemic where they suspended these limits. There could still be appeals in store for this case, but regardless of the outcome of this case, CDL could still be…

No, that's wrong. The original case covered both CDL and the "emergency" lending, but this appeal focused solely on CDL.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#184

Post by kmeisthax »

pessimizer wrote: post #119
teruakohatu wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In his many interviews with U.S. media, he portrays the court cases and legal judgements as a crusade against the Internet Archive and all librarians. It's not. It's the logical outcome of one man's seemingly fanatical conviction against the law and the people who work very hard to bring new books into being. If IA had won, IA would be hailed as a cultural hero. They hit and they missed. Claiming Brewster Kahle is…

[flagged]

> Liberals were spoiled by the Warren Court[...] No, you're going to have to convince people, you can't just wave your degrees and resume around.

Maybe this was true in the 1950s and 60s, but a lot of things enshrined by judicial or executive fiat already have democratic support. ex: https://xkcd.com/1431/ Tearing them down is just an exercise in vetocracy.

I'm not entirely sure how this relates to copyright, though - an aspect of law whose main impact on the average person is YouTube or Facebook saying "no, you can't put 50 year old pop songs on your uploads". Here, the problem isn't a majority opposition that needs to be convinced, it's a majority that doesn't care, or doesn't know how to fight in favor of reform.

IA won't be gone because libraries have limitations on copyright damages. In fact, they already paid damages in a settlement with the publishers in the lawsuit. The only reason why there even is an appeal being talked about is because IA and the publishers both agreed to keep the case live through the appeals court.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#185

Post by jrflowers »

tombert wrote: post #172
ilamont wrote: post #52

This has been playing out for many years. And it's all because Brewster Kahle decided that an overly broad interpretation of the Internet Archive's mission trumped the rights of authors and publishers, and the laws of the United States. When IA was asked to stop CDL - many times - he continued. The National Writers Union tried to open a dialogue as early as 2010 but was ignored: The Internet Archive says it would rat…

This is why I stopped donating to IA, and I will not donate until they get new leadership. I'm a very big supporter of a lot of what IA does, but I feel if I donate, my money is just going to fund more and more legal defenses because Brewster Kahle is being stubborn, and I'm afraid it's going to lead to the entire Archive being shut down. I've mentioned this before, but there are lots of cases where IA will let you d…

> IA will let you download full video games for the switch that are still being actively sold [1]

I am not seeing that anywhere. I see a file called “My Nintendo Switch games collection” and it is a big jpeg photo of a bookshelf. Is this what you mean?

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#186

Post by [deleted] »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #124
tptacek wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the problem is that the preceding analysis is a category error, in that it assumes the law has a purpose of minimizing the circulation of an individual book. It does not, which is why traditional libraries weren't threatened by it.

I don’t know, it doesn’t take a genius or a law degree to understand that maintaining a one to one ratio of physical copies to digitally lent books is the same shit as a regular library but more convenient. It stands to reason that the law shouldn’t preclude technological advances that make libraries more convenient. The reason traditional libraries aren’t threatened by the law is cultural. There are states that ban…

[deleted]

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#187

Post by Aachen »

dpedu wrote: post #157
Aachen wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What content censoring have they been doing, what could I search on to read more about it? When typing "internet archive censoring" into DDG, it just comes up with articles about this case that never even mention the word censoring

I couldn't think of anything off the top of my head either, but a google search found this: https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/7/23341051/kiwi-farms-intern... Edit: HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32743325

> citing an “immediate threat to human life” due to threats and potential criminal actions from Kiwi Farms users [...] Kiwi Farms is known for collecting and publicizing personal details about targets it holds in contempt, many of whom are transgender women

Sounds sensible. I also wouldn't want to host such content tbh, similar to CSAM or pirated movies or so, hosting this material sounds somewhere between being a dick and a shortcut to getting the whole site taken down

I could see the point of keeping it around for research and law enforcement purposes but not the general public

I'm glad to hear this is not about censoring for a political agenda, that would have been a huge blow to how I value and trust the IA with what I've come to find a very useful function on the internet

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#189

Post by Sysreq2 »

ilamont wrote: post #52

This has been playing out for many years. And it's all because Brewster Kahle decided that an overly broad interpretation of the Internet Archive's mission trumped the rights of authors and publishers, and the laws of the United States. When IA was asked to stop CDL - many times - he continued. The National Writers Union tried to open a dialogue as early as 2010 but was ignored: The Internet Archive says it would rat…

We’ve been here before: you can’t punish someone into being your consumer. Someone who wants your product at the price you offer it will ultimately pay for it. Short sighted business decisions ultimately hurt the industry more than accepting the need to change your business model.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#190

Post by tomxor »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #176
cmiles74 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was the CDL hurting working authors? A library bought the book, paying the publisher and the author. The IA scanned the book for digital lending, this digital copy could only be checked out by one person and only when the physical book was not also checked out. I understand the court decided this wasn't okay. That aside, how was it hurting working authors?

> this digital copy could only be checked out by one person and only when the physical book was not also checked out Even if that were the case I don’t think it’s acceptable. Physical used goods have limitations on transfer rate. If you want a used book you have to go to the store. Or have it shipped across the country. I adamantly oppose a global digital pool with instantaneous transfers. In that world you never nee…

You're arguing against a principle that applies to physical libraries (Who also have films btw)...so are physical libraries also nonsense?

Libraries do not serve the interest of publishers (and let's just focus on publishers because if we're being real here, publishers are the ones who stand to lose money - "think of the authors" is just a distraction)... i digress, Libraries exist as a benefit to society, they aren't supposed to neatly fit into absolutist capitalist ideals.

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