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Llms.txt

llmstxt.org

171–180 of 191 posts

Re: Llms.txt

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the problem is for llms yet the tool is for site owners? Why don't we make a tool that solves poverty by taxing the rich?

> So the problem is for llms yet the tool is for site owners? The problem is that of end users, and the tool is an attempt to help them with their problem. It does require cooperation with site owners, yes, but when a site exists to help the end user... > Why don't we make a tool that solves poverty by taxing the rich? Well, for one, there is not nearly enough utilized resources in the world to solve poverty. Taxing…

Also very cute of you to assume that llms are still being trained on websites.

Or that the crib of software (california) with elite engineers (openai comp averages 900k/yr) needs help with a task that indians can do for 3 bucks an hour (web scraping)

Re: Llms.txt

#172

Can we not put another file in the root please? That's what /.well-known/ is for. And while I'm here, authors of unix tools, please use $XDG_CONFIG_HOME. I'm tired of things shitting dot-droppings into my home directory.

This suggests the author didn't consider existing tools or consult with anyone when building the idea.

Re: Llms.txt

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the problem is for llms yet the tool is for site owners? The problem is that of end users, and the tool is an attempt to help them with their problem. It does require cooperation with site owners, yes, but when a site exists to help the end user... > Why don't we make a tool that solves poverty by taxing the rich? Well, for one, there is not nearly enough utilized resources in the world to solve poverty. Taxing…

Also very cute of you to assume that llms are still being trained on websites. Or that the crib of software (california) with elite engineers (openai comp averages 900k/yr) needs help with a task that indians can do for 3 bucks an hour (web scraping)

> Also very cute of you to assume that llms are still being trained on websites.

1. There is no such assumption. Not even a mention.

2. Such an assumption would have no relevance here anyway.

Do you always struggle to read, or are you playing dumb for comedic effect?

Re: Llms.txt

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also very cute of you to assume that llms are still being trained on websites. Or that the crib of software (california) with elite engineers (openai comp averages 900k/yr) needs help with a task that indians can do for 3 bucks an hour (web scraping)

> Also very cute of you to assume that llms are still being trained on websites. 1. There is no such assumption. Not even a mention. 2. Such an assumption would have no relevance here anyway. Do you always struggle to read, or are you playing dumb for comedic effect?

Might have conflated you for op. Or defender of op's tool.

1. Creating a tool based on helping llms train on website implies that: llms have a problem with training on websites (even though html is designed for easy machine parsing of content) and second that llms are still crawling and have not moved on to other harder sources of data.

2. I am challenging those raison d'etre assumptions on the tool. Questioning not only the tool and its usefulness, but its creator's understanding of the state of llm development.

Re: Llms.txt

#175
post #12

What problem does this solve?

I think the idea is that LLMs aren't actually that good, so adding a semi-machine-readable version of your site can make it easier for them to surface your work to their own users.

Html is highly machine readable. That's how crawlers like google and yahoo and browsers like chrome and netscape can work.

Re: Llms.txt

#176
The gist of llms is that they use the same interface humans use, text.

Llms do not use an alternative llm only channel or api for communication.

Llms have no problem reading a website, if you implement this dumb standard as a website owner you are duplicating the things an llm can read.

And if you implement this as an llm tool dev, you are now reading two different sources of information, you are now tasked with integrating them and resolving differences, and opening yourself up to straight up lying.

If a website says one thing to humans and another to llms, which one would you rather display to the user? That's right, the thing humans actually see.

If llms benefit from a standarized side channel for transmitting metadata, it needs to:

1-not be the actual data 2- be a bit more explicit about what data is transmitted. This standard proposes syntax but leaves actual keys up to the user? Sections are called Optional, docs, FastHTML?

Have some balls pick specific keys and bake them into your proposal, and be specifically useful. Sections like: copyright policy, privacy policy, sourcing policy, crowdsourcing, legal jurisdiction, owner. Might all be useful, although they would not strictly be llm only.

Re: Llms.txt

#177

Anyone else worried how backward this sounds? I mean this is like totally giving up on the dismal state of website UXes these days and gladly accepting that website navigation and experience should remain utterly confusing for humans but machines (yes, machines) should get preferential treatment! Good UX is now for machines, not for humans! Shouldn't something like this be first and foremost for humans ... which also…

To me it just sounds like: "html is too complicated for me to parse, please rewrite your website in html again like it was the 2000s without all the doodads and obfuscative frameworks that compile to htmljs, also we changed the syntax and pretend its an llm standard because that's what I'm using it for, and I think I'm solving a novel problem. That way you can make my dotcom boom job of web crawling easier while I get to pretend I'm contributing to the state of the art ai boom topic."

It sounds like that exactly

Re: Llms.txt

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also very cute of you to assume that llms are still being trained on websites. 1. There is no such assumption. Not even a mention. 2. Such an assumption would have no relevance here anyway. Do you always struggle to read, or are you playing dumb for comedic effect?

Might have conflated you for op. Or defender of op's tool. 1. Creating a tool based on helping llms train on website implies that: llms have a problem with training on websites (even though html is designed for easy machine parsing of content) and second that llms are still crawling and have not moved on to other harder sources of data. 2. I am challenging those raison d'etre assumptions on the tool. Questioning not…

> Creating a tool based on helping llms train on website

What are you talking about? The tool has basically nothing to do with websites, other than it is assumed the author of the document will provide it to the user via their website and that the user will know to find it there. Technically speaking, the user could, instead, request the document from the author over email, fax, or even a letter delivered by hand. But HTTP is more convenient for a number of reasons.

> llms have a problem with training on websites

If you mean LLMs have a problem with keeping up with current events, yes, that is essentially the problem this is intended to solve. It offers a document you can inject into your prompt (think RAG) that provides current information that an LLM is probably not up-to-date with – that it can use to gain knowledge about information that may not have even existed a minute ago.

You could go to the regular HTML website and copy/paste the content out of page after page after page to much the same effect, but consolidating it all into one place, with an added bonus of being without any extraneous information that might eat up tokens, to copy/paste once makes it easier for the user.

> Questioning not only the tool and its usefulness

Its usefulness is worth questioning. It very well may not be useful, and the author who proposed this even admits it may not be useful – putting it out there merely to test the waters to see if anyone finds it to be. But your questions are a long way away from being relevant to the tool and how it might potentially be useful.

Re: Llms.txt

#179
> On the other hand, llms.txt information will often be used on demand when a user explicitly requesting information about a topic

I don't fully understand the reasoning for this over standard robots.txt.

It seems this is looking to be a sitemap from llms, but that's not what these types of docs are for. It's not the docs responsibility to describe content if I remember correctly.

Infact it would need to be a dynamic doc and couldn't be guaranteed while also allowing bots on robots thus making the LLM doc moot?

Re: Llms.txt

#180
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the whole idea of extra instructions required for LLMs is unnecessary. A decent LLM should be able to handle browsing the site, if needed it can use the sitemap. It can hopefully also figure out what the various sections are about.

But why would we waste that many tokens on objects that LLms dont care about? Humans appreciate beauty. LLMs do not. Why are we wasting effort?

> Humans appreciate beauty

Some humans do for websites; I personally couldn't care less and I find it often just annoying / in the way. I wish all sites where just black on white or the reverse and with clear interaction elements (including for saas sites). I welcome the near future where I can say; 'show me all important sentry issues, ah yes, make an issue in github to to fix this one and just make the rest resolved' instead of having to click through a myriad of useless and often confusing 'UX' and 'beauty' just to do things.

Non saas sites I just visit to read so I immediately ram the reader-mode button which shows the site indeed as I want.

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