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The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

storage.courtlistener.com

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Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#41

Post by boomboomsubban »

tombert wrote: post #39
boomboomsubban wrote: post #38

This article doesn't mention controlled digital lending at all, what the entire lawsuit was about, and instead spends a significant chunk of the article on the national emergency library, a program that got like a one sentence mention in the judgment.

I think it was the catalyst for the whole lawsuit though. If they had done just CDL, then I think that the book companies would have just tolerated it.

It wasn't, the book publishers were clearly preparing the lawsuit for years before the NEL.

The logic doesn't even make sense, if their objection was to the NEL they would have sued over that and the lawsuit would have been over four years ago.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#42

Post by tombert »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #41
tombert wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it was the catalyst for the whole lawsuit though. If they had done just CDL, then I think that the book companies would have just tolerated it.

It wasn't, the book publishers were clearly preparing the lawsuit for years before the NEL. The logic doesn't even make sense, if their objection was to the NEL they would have sued over that and the lawsuit would have been over four years ago.

> It wasn't, the book publishers were clearly preparing the lawsuit for years before the NEL.

Even if that were true, they could have still been waiting for something like NEL to start the process, if nothing else to get the narrative on their side.

I don't know, I don't work for a book company.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#44

Post by quartesixte »

Really wish one of the billionaires would fund a publishing house that worked off a very different model than the Copyright Protection Scheme that the current majors used. Something that would allow authors to capture upsides, publishers to recoup, and information to spread freely.

Patronage? Large Advances + Subscriptions?

Something besides what we have now. Writing a 200 - 300 page book takes fair bit of effort and time that is not directly compensated, hence advances and the upside of royalties.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#45

Post by jandrese »

Very much not a surprise. I think the Internet Archive is providing an invaluable service to humanity in preserving works that would otherwise be lost to time. it is one of the crown jewels of the Internet, doing a job that nobody else is willing to do. But at the same time I know the courts side with publishers pretty much every time and copyright law being such as it is they're totally screwed. The only real question is how many trillions dollars will the judgment be. Preserving history is at odds with the profit motive, and lawmakers care a lot more about the latter than the former.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#47

Post by ranger_danger »

indigovole wrote: post #36
realityfactchex wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading and understanding the opinion is the way for this one, for a simple reason as I understand it. The judges get to basically make up an opinion about the matter, which could be anything. And they can support basically any opinion using whatever they want, and it can be made to sound ok. The whole point is that the judges are forming a judgement. It's, like, their opinion on the matter. The judges don't have to…

It is ultimately judgment calls by human beings that make the determinations. However, I don't see how you can read this opinion and think that the judges are just making their minds up on the spot. Every single decision point in this opinion goes back to prior cases and either explains why they apply or distinguishes this case from them to explain why they don't. - It's not like Campbell/Rose-Acuff (2 Live Crew v Ro…

>In sum, IA has not met its "burden of proving that the secondary use does not compete in the relevant market"

How does this same thing not apply to physical libraries then? Even if the scope were limited to books IA itself owns (which they still denied anyways), why should one-to-one digital lending be any different than physical in-person library book lending?

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#49

Post by vidarh »

quartesixte wrote: post #44

Really wish one of the billionaires would fund a publishing house that worked off a very different model than the Copyright Protection Scheme that the current majors used. Something that would allow authors to capture upsides, publishers to recoup, and information to spread freely. Patronage? Large Advances + Subscriptions? Something besides what we have now. Writing a 200 - 300 page book takes fair bit of effort and…

The majority of authors who write novels hardly earn money as it is. I've written two novels, and they've sold more than average, and yet it can't cover my takeaway budget. That's fine, it's a hobby. But the point is only a vanishingly small minority write for money.

Of course we want to keep some of those who do, but I don't know what a good solution would be. Not least because there's a vast chasm in terms of effort: a novel of the same length can take days or years, and it's not at all a given the low effort one will be the worst one.

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