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The coming long-run slowdown in corporate profit growth and stock returns [pdf] (2023)

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Re: The coming long-run slowdown in corporate profit growth and stock returns [pdf] (2023)

#31

I'm sure absurd parasitic government interference, lawfare, and shareholder activism in public corporations has nothing to do with all the good companies going private, ergo smart people telling the lawyers to go to hell, old people with pensions hardest hit.

[flagged]

Re: The coming long-run slowdown in corporate profit growth and stock returns [pdf] (2023)

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Semiconductors and software have created enormous amounts of value for the companies that own them , but the Fed usually thinks in macroeconomic terms. For the macro economy, the effect of technical development on overall corporate profits is much more muted. Creative destruction destroys old industries as much as it creates new ones. For example, there's a TV show "Mad Men" about the dominance of Madison Avenue adve…

Interest rates have been all over the map over the last 60 years, including double digits in the 80s, and yet low-cost index funds have been a reliable driver of wealth that entire time.

"That entire time" only holds if you're looking at 20+ year time horizons, and zooming in shows the effect of interest rates. If you bought the S&P 500 in November 1968 and sold it in July 1982, you lost money in nominal terms, despite the CPI nearly tripling during that time period (so in real terms, you lost 2/3 of your investment). During that time period, interest rates went from 6% to 19%, also roughly tripling.

Then if you held from 1982 to 1987, the S&P 500 nearly tripled, despite low inflation and relatively few major technological changes. What was the difference? Interest rates went from 19% to 6%.

A useful lens with which to view this and other phenomena is "Which factors cancel out, and under what timeframes?" Technological development leads to large microeconomic winners and losers but little macroeconomic effect under short time frames, less than the business cycle, because the mechanism by which it increases overall welfare is to put workers out of work and firms into bankruptcy, freeing up those workers and that capital to be invested in new enterprises. Interest rates have a large effect over that timeframe, because they affect all firms in the economy equally. Over long time frames (multiple business cycles), the effect of interest rates washes out because they go up and then they go down and eventually they equilibrate near the long-term average. Technological development dominates then because you've given the economy a chance to adapt to new production methods and re-employ workers in obsolete jobs.

Re: The coming long-run slowdown in corporate profit growth and stock returns [pdf] (2023)

#33

I'm sure absurd parasitic government interference, lawfare, and shareholder activism in public corporations has nothing to do with all the good companies going private, ergo smart people telling the lawyers to go to hell, old people with pensions hardest hit.

[flagged]

"parasitic government interference" doesn't preclude the existence of non-parasitic government actions/investments.

Re: The coming long-run slowdown in corporate profit growth and stock returns [pdf] (2023)

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> efficiency gains from globalization have already passed their peak Is this true? Aren't there a ton of developing nations that have rapid debelopment that will increase efficiency of different industries as they grow?

There aren't a lot of Indonesias left.

Sure there are, plenty of low income countries with fledging industries, but the governments get more and more risky to deal with the further down in income you go.

Re: The coming long-run slowdown in corporate profit growth and stock returns [pdf] (2023)

#35

Very interesting paper. > I show that the decline in interest rates and corporate tax rates over the past three decades accounts for the majority of the period’s exceptional stock market performance. It's interesting that they've shown this to the exclusion of other narratives, mainly frontier markets like semiconductors and software allowing "easy" creation of value. I think this is partially why investors are so ea…

I call bullshit. Tax rates and interest rates certainly help spur investment and expansion of production but it’s hard to look at the world we live in today, with electric cars that can self drive and hand held devices connected to natural language comprehending oracles of knowledge, JIT industries end to end, starships to mars for colonization in mid to late stages, etc, and think “yep the only value is the value the federal reserve has created” as a federal reserve economist posits.

Re: The coming long-run slowdown in corporate profit growth and stock returns [pdf] (2023)

#36
Quite a few authors have pointed out that the "financialization" of American businesses, with a focus less on innovation or investing in their workforce and more on massaging their numbers to meet shareholder expectations, has created a lot of short-term enrichment for the super-wealthy while absolutely destroying the middle class as we know it. This seems like more fuel for that fire.

Re: The coming long-run slowdown in corporate profit growth and stock returns [pdf] (2023)

#37

I believe in almost no predictions that assert a change from the existing regime. Regime shifts of this scale (a stop to equity growth) are extremely rare. But nobody publishes papers on why the existing status quo will continue. The show will go on, technology will be deflationary, which will support interest rate drops. Inflation will get sucked out of the economy, and life will go on. Anyone that ever acted on adv…

If the pandemic didn't bring real a new world order to the economy I don't know what else would honestly.

Re: The coming long-run slowdown in corporate profit growth and stock returns [pdf] (2023)

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Semiconductors and software have created enormous amounts of value for the companies that own them , but the Fed usually thinks in macroeconomic terms. For the macro economy, the effect of technical development on overall corporate profits is much more muted. Creative destruction destroys old industries as much as it creates new ones. For example, there's a TV show "Mad Men" about the dominance of Madison Avenue adve…

Interest rates have been all over the map over the last 60 years, including double digits in the 80s, and yet low-cost index funds have been a reliable driver of wealth that entire time.

The US population today is twice what it was in 1960. I know I am oversimplifying, but so much of the the history of long term growth could be intepreted as older people benefitting from progressively larger younger generations. More people = more production and more consumption = growth. I really wonder if this is sustainable with the projected future of population decline.

Re: The coming long-run slowdown in corporate profit growth and stock returns [pdf] (2023)

#39

I'm sure absurd parasitic government interference, lawfare, and shareholder activism in public corporations has nothing to do with all the good companies going private, ergo smart people telling the lawyers to go to hell, old people with pensions hardest hit.

Can you be more specific about what government interference would prevent a company from wanting to go public?

Re: The coming long-run slowdown in corporate profit growth and stock returns [pdf] (2023)

#40
The abstract does a great job of summarizing the OP's findings:

> I show that the decline in interest rates and corporate tax rates over the past three decades accounts for the majority of the period’s exceptional stock market performance. Lower interest expenses and corporate tax rates mechanically explain over 40 percent of the real growth in corporate profits from 1989 to 2019. In addition, the decline in risk-free rates alone accounts for all of the expansion in price-to-earnings multiples. I argue, however, that the boost to profits and valuations from ever- declining interest and corporate tax rates is unlikely to continue, indicating significantly lower profit growth and stock returns in the future.

Great paper, very though-provoking.

Thank you for sharing it on HN!

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